this post was submitted on 14 Dec 2024
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Support / questions about Lemmy.

Matrix Space: #lemmy-space

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I was wondering if there were systems in place for users to report mods who are just ignoring the code of conduct and just abusing their power of moderator as a whole?

I've seen that we could get in touch via Mastodon, but I don't have an account for that unfortunately and I was curious to know if there were other ways

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[–] Nanook@lemm.ee 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] Blaze@feddit.org 0 points 1 week ago

They already are

[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

It really depends on the instance. For lemmy.world, you can reach the admins by a couple of different email addresses, but I'm not sure how that works for, say, lemm.ee which is your instance, or lemmy.ml which is where you posted this.

[–] gravityowl@lemm.ee 0 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I posted here because it happened on lemmy.ml

But sadly, considering this is not the first time I've had the displeasure of interacting with your run of the mill, power tripping mod from ml, I won't hold my breath waiting for their assistance I guess.

It sucks that such a large instance as no accountability though. I’d imagine it must sucks for new users having to learn on their own to be aware of the usual instances

[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Looking at the modlog, it's a temp ban from memes. I wouldn't sweat it.

[–] gravityowl@lemm.ee 0 points 1 week ago (3 children)

As I wrote, this is not the first time I encountered such behavior. And while you might not care, I was curious to know if there were better solutions than just accepting these kind of things passively.

To me it is wrong for such prominent instances to always be the ones getting away with this type of behavior

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 0 points 1 week ago (6 children)

To me it is wrong for such prominent instances to always be the ones getting away with this type of behavior

I wasn't going to mention it, but as it's not your first time, !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works is more specific than !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com

Instances known for power tripping are getting less and less popular over time

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[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago

Yeah, you can take it to the .ml admins, but speaking from my own interactions with my own admins, I really doubt they'll interfere in your favor over a 5 day ban.

[–] TheOubliette@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 week ago

Getting away with the behavior of tempbans from a single comm pointlessly insulting?

You'll find that on basically every instance, they'll just have a different standard on what is an unhelpful insult and who it is okay to attack. For example, other instances will tolerate the typical American acceptance of xenophobia and .ml will not. And if you simply describe someone on .world as excusing support for genocide because they're trying to justify advocating for someone enabling it, they'll ban you for "misinformation" and "trolling" because their liberal partisan tendencies have been shaken.

[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 0 points 1 week ago (2 children)

The point isn't that they received some wild type of "punishment" they can't come back from. The point is that having what you're allowed to say policed in this fashion is offensive to the vast majority of people, whatever mechanism "gentle" or not is being used to enforce the policing.

Moderation started out as a way to remove racism, spam and similar blatant abuse. Somehow, it's grown to the point that people feel they have to hover over the shoulders of the commenters dictating what are the allowed and disallowed types of statements. Most people feel that if they think China has an oppressive government, they should be allowed to say it. And that if they think the US has an oppressive government, they should be allowed to say it. Lemmy.ml is a silly place because one of those statements is "allowed" and the other is not, which is absurd behavior that belongs better on a Fox News comment section or a US State Department web site than it does on the flagship instance of a supposedly FOSS-and-freedom friendly software project.

[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

As a mod, we don't really "hover", we do have a queue of reported posts and reported comments and deal with them as they pop up.

Most likely some other .ml user saw the "tankie" comment, reported it, and the .ml mod did the .ml mod thing.

[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 0 points 1 week ago

I fail to see a useful distinction between me posting what I think, and a mod seeing it and deleting it, versus me posting what I think, someone reporting it, and then the mod deleting it. In both cases someone's standing over me policing what viewpoints I'm allowed to express, which is bad.

I actually do get why someone would want to delete "tankie," since it could be taken as a gratuitous insult. And I do get mod fatigue and running out of care to give as an underlying issue for a lot of this. I think a big part of the underlying issue is depending on volunteer moderators to keep the whole system together and making basically unlimited demands on them. I was just talking about the general censorship problem on lemmy.ml, not trying to say that every case is always power tripping mods.

[–] theonlytruescotsman@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Both of those statements are allowed in .ml, you just can't repeat us state department propaganda without extreme amounts of proof to back it up. There is a difference between: "I think China is authoritarian" and "oog boog look remember that genocide that the UN investigated and found wasn't a genocide where all the 'victims' that were touted are now millionaires in other countries after selling a story the UN specifically found didn't happen... It happened!!!!1!1!!1"

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] theonlytruescotsman@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Yes that is specifically what I'm talking about, there wasn't criticism of China, there was "oog think China bad because ( insert thing the UN found no evidence of that literally only the US ever said there was evidence of and they didn't present that evidence )."

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 0 points 1 week ago (2 children)

And how is this related to mechanical keyboards, Linux and open source communities?

[–] theonlytruescotsman@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Read the rules, if you disagree with the rules in a community, don't participate, make your own. It's hardly power tripping if you actively seek to violate rules clearly laid out.

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 0 points 1 week ago

make your own

That's what most people are doing

[–] TheOubliette@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Banning someone from an instance also bans them from communities they participate in. Or at least, it used to.

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

That's probably the core of the issue. People probably don't mind being banned from !politics@lemmy.ml or !news@lemmy.ml for such statements, it's not like it's a surprise based on the political stance of the instance.

Being banned from Linux and keyboard communities seems unrelated. Which is why people are recreating those communities elsewhere.

[–] TheOubliette@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

If instances are like separate Reddits then it is just like getting a siteban.

Also something being "politics" does not mean it should entitle you to other spaces. This is how reactionaries self-victimize to excuse, say, transphobia.

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

If instances are like separate Reddits then it is just like getting a siteban.

Indeed, and like Reddit, people are leaving for other sites, or in this case instances

[–] TheOubliette@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 week ago

Sounds like a good thing given the reasons they are "leaving".

[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

And here we reach the crux of the matter.

If I think there's been a genocide in Xinjiang, I should be able to say so. Someone else might think that's objectively not true, and we can talk about it. That's actually a really healthy thing, it is an exchange of ideas. Almost no one has a monopoly on understanding the world completely, and so it's necessary to be able to talk it back and forth. Deciding that we're going to delete one side of that conversation is good for no one.

I think the model that's crept into the modern internet where discordant ideas are "enemy" ideas that everyone needs to be protected against, and there's no point in talking with anyone you disagree with because all the two of you will do is attack each other, is poison.

I'm happy to hear what you have to say, maybe I am wrong about this instance. When did the UN say there wasn't a genocide and all the victims are millionaires? If you link me to the report, I would like to read it.

[–] TheOubliette@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Uncritically spreading xenophobic propaganda will of course get you a tut-tut of some kind. As it should.

[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Can you link me to the UN report where they found there was no genocide, and the so-called victims were millionaires?

[–] TheOubliette@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/countries/2022-08-31/22-08-31-final-assesment.pdf

They don't even mention the word genocide because that is an accusation exclusive to US propaganda think tanks and those who cite them, i.e. their funders (the US State Department and other imperialist countries' similar state organs) and friendly media. It is baseless bullshit that can only be entertained by the ignorant.

If you keep searching, you will find another "UN" "report" that attacks China, but this is not the OHCR, it is the usual propaganda thing where countries invite propagandists to a meeting and have them read out accusations. It is not any kind of investigation.

[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

How does this report find there was no genocide, if they didn't mention the word genocide?

I also searched for "million" to try to find the story about all the victims being millionaires now, and I didn't find that either. Can you or the other person who talked about that tell me more about where I can find it?

I did skim some of the report.

  1. Former detainees interviewed by OHCHR had spent periods of time, generally ranging from two months to 18 months, in facilities in eight different geographic locations across XUAR, including in Ili Kazakh Autonomous Prefecture, Aksu, Bayingol, Hotan, Karamay and Urumqi prefectures.Two-thirds of the twenty-six former detainees interviewed, reported having been subjected to treatment that would amount to torture and/or other forms of ill-treatment, either in VETC facilities themselves or in the context of processes of referral to VETC facilities. These claims of mistreatment took place either during interrogations or as a form of punishment for (alleged) wrongdoing. Their accounts included being beaten with batons, including electric batons while strapped in a so- called “tiger chair”; being subjected to interrogation with water being poured in their faces; prolonged solitary confinement; and being forced to sit motionless on small stools for prolonged periods of time. Persons reporting beatings for confessions described being taken to interrogation rooms that were separate to the cells or dormitory spaces where people were staying. Over two-thirds of the individuals also reported that, prior to their transfer to a VETC facility, they were held in police stations, where they described similar instances of being beaten while also immobilised in a “tiger chair” in those facilities.
  1. Some also spoke of various forms of sexual violence, including some instances of rape, affecting mainly women. These accounts included having been forced by guards to perform oral sex in the context of an interrogation and various forms of sexual humiliation, including forced nudity. The accounts similarly described the way in which rapes took place outside the dormitories, in separate rooms without cameras. In addition, several women recounted being subject to invasive gynaecological examinations, including one woman who described this taking place in a group setting which “made old women ashamed and young girls cry”, because they did not understand what was happening. The Government has firmly denied these claims, often through personal or gendered attacks against the women who have publicly reported these allegations.
  1. Uyghur-majority areas represented the bulk of this decline, with two of the largest Uyghur prefectures especially affected by it. In Hotan, which is 96 per cent Uyghur, birth rates went from 20.94 per cent in 2016 to 8.58 per cent per thousand births in 2018. Similarly, the birth rate in Kashgar, which is approximately 92.6 per cent Uyghur, dropped from 18.19 per cent in 2016249 to 7.94 per cent per thousand births in 2018. Even taking into account the overall decline in birth rates in China, these figures remain unusual and stark. The same applies to the figures regarding sterilisations and IUD placements in XUAR, with official data indicating an unusually sharp rise in both forms of procedures in the region during 2017 and 2018, in comparison with the rest of China. For example, in 2018, sterilisations in XUAR stood at 243 per 100,000 inhabitants, whereas the overall figure for China was a fraction thereof at only 32.1 per 100,000 inhabitants.

Leaving aside the question of whether to draw the conclusion that there is a genocide, do you think that information like the stuff I just quoted from the report you just sent me is accurate?

[–] TheOubliette@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

How does this report find there was no genocide, if they didn't mention the word genocide?

Because it is an investigation into alleged human rights abuses in Xinjiang for the exact period in question in response to the people making these allegations.

The escalation of claims went: human rights abuses -> cultural genocide -> genocide. Both escalations were unjustified and they literally had nothing for the escalation to genocide. It was a claim by a shady organization funded by a CIA cutout.

I also searched for "million" to try to find the story about all the victims being millionaires now, and I didn't find that either. Can you or the other person who talked about that tell me more about where I can find it?

I haven't followed the incomes of the grifters pushing this narrative in the West but if you research World Uyghur Congress you will probably find information about this. I do know that they received a lot of funding and have very little to show for it. That money went somewhere.

Leaving aside the question of whether to draw the conclusion that there is a genocide, do you think that information like the stuff I just quoted from the report you just sent me is accurate?

I would need to refresh my memory and look into specific cases because some people have recanted accounts like this or otherwise given very inconsistent stories. I don't doubt that there were abuses, though. The devil is really in the details. Often it is people from these NED-funded propaganda orgs that are used as sources for these stories and they have a vested interest in how they tell them in order to support their ideological cause and continue receiving funding. For example one of the accounts often touted, and I don't know whether it is one of those specific examples you mention, is by a business owner whose story constantly changed who fled the country and whose family more or less says is lying. Without her business assets, she received income from these NED funded orgs. It's a fairly standard playbook at this point.

Incidentally, one of the orgs funded in this way, ETIM, was on the US and others' terrorism lists until it became convenient to use them to poke China. ETIM are reactionary separatists trying to import Arab salafist positions and wrongly conflate them with Uyghur (Turkic) customs. They are also behind some of the knife attacks and they are related to the al Qaeda-adjascent groups in Syria vowing to bring separatist violence to China right now.

[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 0 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I was responding, originally, to this statement:

genocide that the UN investigated and found wasn’t a genocide where all the ‘victims’ that were touted are now millionaires in other countries after selling a story the UN specifically found didn’t happen

I asked because I didn't know of anything that backs up either of those claims. I still haven't seen anything that does.

In non-authoritarian contexts, it's actually pretty normal to ask "Why are you saying this, what is the evidence," instead of just accepting a browbeating message as, in itself, proof of what's being claimed. And usually, if someone's asked for proof and then their proof doesn't match the thing claimed when you examine it, or they're hostile to the idea of needing to provide proof in the first place because that's "sealioning" or whatever, that's a huge red flag. Likewise it is a red flag if someone makes a claim, and then when asked for evidence they pivot instead into a whole bunch of new claims.

It doesn't look like you or the other speaker are interested in backing up this stuff. I don't want to play the Gish Gallop game of indefinitely checking out all these new claims. I really did read the report. I don't know all that much about Xinjiang, so it was informative for me to see it, so thank you. I didn't see a strong indication, one way or another, that what's happening either is or isn't a genocide. It's definitely not on the same scale as Gaza or Nazi Germany, but it still does sound to me like they're aiming to eradicate the culture of these people and replace it Chinese culture, alongside a lot of other human rights abuses. The forced sterilization and wide-scale destruction of mosques, in particular, sounds exactly like eradication.

I would need to refresh my memory and look into specific cases because some people have recanted accounts like this or otherwise given very inconsistent stories.

Okay, so you're not sure whether the report you sent me was accurate. You're just interested in using it to back up something that it doesn't actually back up, but at the same time throwing shade at any part of it that says something you don't want to hear.

That fact that it doesn't use the word "genocide" is not, to me, a specific finding that there is not a genocide. They seem like they're just focused on what the facts of the matter are, instead of the question of whether it fits into some specific value judgement or not.

I'm done here. I was just curious, that's all. Have a good day.

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 0 points 1 week ago

Nice comment

[–] TheOubliette@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I asked because I didn't know of anything that backs up either of those claims. I still haven't seen anything that does.

The UN report you asked for and that I kindly, without thanks, provided, does so, as I have explained.

In non-authoritarian contexts

What on earth are you talking about

it's actually pretty normal to ask "Why are you saying this, what is the evidence," instead of just accepting a browbeating message as, in itself, proof of what's being claimed.

Cool well I am not the person who originally said anything about this and you have been provided with evidence that you are now more or less ignoring and dismissing out of hand.

And usually, if someone's asked for proof and then their proof doesn't match the thing claimed when you examine it, or they're hostile to the idea of needing to provide proof in the first place because that's "sealioning" or whatever, that's a huge red flag.

It does match the claim, you are just not engaging in good faith with what was presented. You have literally not responded at all to my contextualization and are now grandstanding instead. Is that a red flag? And again, I am not the original person you were talking to. Not only have I not been hostile to "providing proof", I went out of my way to provide what was being referenced.

Likewise it is a red flag if someone makes a claim, and then when asked for evidence they pivot instead into a whole bunch of new claims.

At no point have I pivoted. I have provided you with context you help you understand something that is clearly new to you, however.

It doesn't look like you or the other speaker are interested in backing up this stuff.

I provided the document, explained its relevance, and provided context you help you understand where the genocide narrative is coming from and how unserious it is. I also offered some possible context for what OP was referring to by people getting rich.

You are now avoiding responding to what I said. If you cannot critically engage with this topic, you do not need to take it out on me with these silly accusations.

I don't want to play the Gish Gallop game of indefinitely checking out all these new claims

There is no Gish Gallop, this is just a topic you don't know anything about and I have provided you with several facts. This is not a debate.

I really did read the report. I don't know all that much about Xinjiang, so it was informative for me to see it, so thank you. I didn't see a strong indication, one way or another, that what's happening either is or isn't a genocide.

It is not the destruction of a people in whole or in part as described by the UN definition, which is obvious by simply comparing it to the report. There are not mass graves, there is no forced migration, children are not stolen, there is no substantial diaspora. There is nothing to the narrative. The onus of proof is actually on those making these claims. I have described, in general terms, where they come from, who makes them. Can you tell me the names od the organization(s)? What were they doing before 2018 or so? Do you know why you are even entertaining this possibility in the first place? Where is your evidence? The UN OHCHR didn't claim genocide.

It's definitely not on the same scale as Gaza or Nazi Germany, but it still does sound to me like they're aiming to eradicate the culture of these people and replace it Chinese culture, alongside a lot of other human rights abuses.

Xinjiang is Chinese. China is a multi-ethnic state. Uyghurs in China are not more or less Chinese than any other citizen in China and it would actually be racist to say otherwise.

The OHCHR report also does not claim that China is trying to eradicate their culture. Where do you get that idea from?

The forced sterilization

It is important to critically interrogate this claim. What did the OHCHR report provide as evidence? What are they specifically referring to as sterilization?

and wide-scale destruction of mosques,

This did not happen and the OHCHR repory does not make this claim. Take note of the limited examples provided and follow the rabbit hole of sourcing. It will be revealing.

in particular, sounds exactly like eradication.

That is why the accusers use language like "forced sterilization" to describe the insertion of IUDs and play with implications based on tortured per capita statistics that are far less scary than presented. If you don't investigate, all you walk away with is the bad words and no sense of scale or impact.

Okay, so you're not sure whether the report you sent me was accurate. You're just interested in using it to back up something that it doesn't actually back up, but at the same time throwing shade at any part of it that says something you don't want to hear.

You are confused. I have merely supplied you with what you asked for. Don't ascribe things to me that I haven't said.

That fact that it doesn't use the word "genocide" is not, to me, a specific finding that there is not a genocide.

You can of course use your brain to compare what is claimed to what genocide is. I have already explained this.

They seem like they're just focused on what the facts of the matter are, instead of the question of whether it fits into some specific value judgement or not.

On the contrary, this report was created at the behest of those accusing China of genocide and this is what they were then provided with.

I'm done here. I was just curious, that's all. Have a good day.

Your responses are combative, not curious. They are about doubting and fighting, often against things I have not said, and you are not asking questions and then accepting or building on the answers. This is despite you admittingly knowing little about this topic, whereas I clearly feel comfortable speaking about it purely rrom memory because I have actually done the work, done the curious thing.

You can do that, too, but it looks like you will need to stop treating this like some kind of debate to the death first.

[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I asked, "Can you link me to the UN report where they found there was no genocide, and the so-called victims were millionaires?" You sent me a report. It doesn't say there was no genocide, and it doesn't say the so-called victims were millionaires. I realize you're saying that a reasonable person can read the report and conclude that obviously there is no genocide at all, but I don't completely agree with that. I'm allowed to not agree with you. That's not "fighting."

I'm really not trying to be hard to talk to or get you riled up. What you describe as "fighting" or refusing to absorb the information you are providing, I view as just healthy skepticism. If you run way, way ahead of your sources by painting a huge picture, you are completely correct that I'm going to refuse to become passive and let you educate me and believe everything you say. I'm going to take a step back and say, "Well, okay, I get what you're saying, but what is your backing?" I can do that even if I'm not that familiar with the topic. The fact that you're so upset that I'm not just believing everything you say is weird to me.

A few detail points:

That is why the accusers use language like “forced sterilization” to describe the insertion of IUDs

This is not accurate. Forced sterilizations, forced insertion of IUDs, and forced abortions are measured as separate things, although they're sometimes talked about as the related issues that they are. It's in section 108 which I already quoted.

It is important to critically interrogate this claim. What did the OHCHR report provide as evidence? What are they specifically referring to as sterilization?

Why are you so skeptical, now, of the source that you provided? It's either trustworthy, when it says that women are being sterilized against their will, or it isn't. I generally trust the UN, and it seems well-sourced, and you were the one that provided it in the first place, so I see no reason to assume that "sterilization" means something other than sterilization.

and wide-scale destruction of mosques,

This did not happen and the OHCHR repory does not make this claim. Take note of the limited examples provided and follow the rabbit hole of sourcing. It will be revealing.

Yes it does. It's in sections 85 and 86. I picked one of the rabbit-holes of sourcing, and found https://uhrp.org/report/demolishing-faith-the-destruction-and-desecration-of-uyghur-mosques-and-shrines/, which said "The Chinese government’s current crackdown in the Uyghur region is aimed at eliminating Uyghur ethnocultural identity and assimilating them into an undifferentiated “Chinese” identity. As one of the cornerstones of their identity, Uyghurs’ Islamic faith has been a major target of this campaign, resulting in many Uyghurs being sent to the network of concentration camps. This campaign has also taken the form of eradicating tangible signs of the region’s Islamic identity from the physical landscape. This has involved the whole or partial demolition of an unprecedented number of mosques, including several historically significant buildings."

It is not the destruction of a people in whole or in part as described by the UN definition, which is obvious by simply comparing it to the report. There are not mass graves, there is no forced migration, children are not stolen, there is no substantial diaspora.

The UN definition of genocide is "any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:"

  1. Killing members of the group;
  2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
  3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
  4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
  5. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

I already said this: I'm not convinced either way. I read parts of the report, and took it seriously. It talks about forced sterilization and family separation, deaths in custody and executions, and other things that very clearly meet the numbered criteria. But is that being committed with intent to destroy the group as such? I don't really know. But I don't think that the UN putting together a report which describes it, but stops short of calling it genocide, means that it's conclusively proven that it is not genocide.

I'm losing my patience with this conversation, to be honest. It seems like your model is that you say things and I accept them, and I'm "fighting" if I don't. My model is going to be that I'm going to compare the things you say with things I can source, and see if the claims change or if the backing is solid, and then if after a couple rounds of that it seems like you're well in accordance with things outside of you that I can find, then okay, I become more trusting. If you're going to get offended by that, I think you're going to keep being offended by the conversation, and I think maybe this isn't going to be productive.

[–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

You're really demonstrating why it's easier to just remove comments like yours rather than try to disprove them when you're just going play Calvin Ball and argue in bad faith

[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

“Another writer again agreed with all my generalities, but said that as an inveterate skeptic I have closed my mind to the truth. Most notably I have ignored the evidence for an Earth that is six thousand years old. Well, I haven’t ignored it; I considered the purported evidence and then rejected it. There is a difference, and this is a difference, we might say, between prejudice and postjudice. Prejudice is making a judgment before you have looked at the facts. Postjudice is making a judgment afterwards. Prejudice is terrible, in the sense that you commit injustices and you make serious mistakes. Postjudice is not terrible. You can’t be perfect of course; you may make mistakes also. But it is permissible to make a judgment after you have examined the evidence. In some circles it is even encouraged.”

—Carl Sagan, The Burden of Skepticism

[–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

When I said:

I really did read the report. I don’t know all that much about Xinjiang, so it was informative for me to see it, so thank you.

And explained in some detail how I interpreted the report, I got in response:

The UN report you asked for and that I kindly, without thanks, provided, does so, as I have explained.

In the world I inhabit, people are allowed to make up their own minds about things. I explained how I took the report, and this person told me I took it wrong, and “explained” how was the correct way to take it, and demanded that I prove that there was a genocide going on, when I’d already said that after read the report I wasn’t really sure whether there was or not.

I’ve spent some time talking about this at this point, but ultimately, I am not interested in that type of interaction. I think enough words have been spent on this at this point. Have a good one.

[–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 week ago

You were, and are, being deliberately disingenuous.

[–] socsa@piefed.social 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I have gotten banned from .ml twice for merely stating that Russia shot down a civilian airliner in Ukraine.

[–] theonlytruescotsman@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

What century are you from? The last time Russia had anti air assets in Ukraine it was still called the Ukraine and it was half it's current size.

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[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 0 points 1 week ago (2 children)

!yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com

Also I would not recommend having an account on lemmy.ml if this is your concern, the moderators here are rather famous for doing this at the drop of a hat. I guess you could have your account on .ml and mostly interact with communities on other instances, but why?

[–] gravityowl@lemm.ee 0 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Why indeed. I’d never create an account over there, I agree with you.

Sadly every user on Lemmy learned or will learn at their expense that interacting with most users from ml, hexbear and the likes, brings nothing positive on most occasions.

I had hoped that maybe something was done since last time I checked, but I guess I was wrong 😅

[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 0 points 1 week ago

Authoritarians gonna authoritarian.

Also, especially with young people, calling them out for bad behavior like this usually leads to them just doubling down on the bad behavior because they'll feel that their honor is insulted by the criticism and so they have to reject it. Something like that. I definitely wouldn't hold your breath for a change.

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[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Looking at the modlog, they picked up a 5 day ban from memes@lemmy.ml for a comment that pretty much directly attacks .ml as being "tankie".

[–] gravityowl@lemm.ee 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

"Every now and then, the .ml side of this community comes through with these inaccurate tankle memes. You win some, you lose some I guess"

That's the whole comment I wrote. If you are going to report it, at least do it correctly please.

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[–] Jerry@feddit.online 0 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

In smaller instances, you can easily reach the Admin and are much more likely to get a response. Also, the moderation is likely done completely by the Admin and not by a less-invested person who might be enjoying the power and control of being a moderator.

From my experience, about 80% of opened reports are self-resolvable and don't need Admins or moderators and is just someone seeing the world through a biased lens, so everything they don't believe becomes misinformation, and they start opening reports for vengeance. When many of these keep coming, it wears Admins and moderators down, and they are more likely to just ban than respond. This fatigue is not something a small instance Admin experiences. They give more thought to the situation.

I was banned on mastodon . social because someone who disagreed with me perfectly crafted a complaint (they apparently had a lot of experience doing this) that took what I wrote out of context to seem like I was saying something else, and .social banned me instantly and denied the appeal. The claim was total fiction. They didn't care. They had a stack of reports to get through. I had no hope of reaching an Admin.

I never used a large instance again.

Just something, maybe, to think about.

[–] stinky@redlemmy.com 0 points 1 week ago

The few users who have created accounts in my instance are thrilled with the direct support they get from me and my co-admin. I imagine that their original instance was something of a mill where they were treated like nuisances. It's one of the things I love about being an admin, is the ability to protect people who would otherwise be ignored

[–] nichtburningturtle@feddit.org 0 points 1 week ago

dm an admin and report the problematic behaviour.

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