this post was submitted on 13 Dec 2024
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World-leading scientists have called for a halt on research to create “mirror life” microbes amid concerns that the synthetic organisms would present an “unprecedented risk” to life on Earth.

The international group of Nobel laureates and other experts warn that mirror bacteria, constructed from mirror images of molecules found in nature, could become established in the environment and slip past the immune defences of natural organisms, putting humans, animals and plants at risk of lethal infections.

Many molecules for life can exist in two distinct forms, each the mirror image of the other. The DNA of all living organisms is made from “right-handed” nucleotides, while proteins, the building blocks of cells, are made from “left-handed” amino acids. Why nature works this way is unclear: life could have chosen left-handed DNA and right-handed proteins instead.

The fresh concerns over the technology are revealed in a 299-page report and a commentary in the journal Science. While enthusiastic about research on mirror molecules, the report sees substantial risks in mirror microbes and calls for a global debate on the work.

(page 2) 45 comments
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[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 week ago (4 children)

This seems like something that really is a minimal risk. Pathogens are pathogens because they are able to make use of our bodies as raw materials to reproduce. Unless they are able to make use of both enantiomers in their biology, there's little benefit to dedicating resources to colonizing us.

Probably a bigger concern would be outcompeting and displacing organisms lower on the food chain.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 week ago (3 children)

If mirrored microbes require mirrored antibodies to be killed that is something no living thing on earth has the ability to create.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 week ago

Absolutely. Conversely, if mirrored microbes aren't able to make use of building materials in hosts that are mirrors to them, pathogenicity makes little biological sense (microbes don't make us sick out of spite). Now, if they could, that would be a problem. Even if not, they could fatally disrupt the gut microbiome.

The scope of what I suspect to be the greater danger, I've, perhaps understated. Suppose mirror bacteria "escape" and are able to thrive in the surrounding environment. As you note, known life has not evolved to be able to defend against it. This introduces the possibility of the artificial bacteria displacing the natural ones. Since the biosphere involves more complex organisms feeding on the smaller ones, it is plausible that the entire food web could be disrupted, leading to extinction of extant complex life, unless adaptation occurs quick enough.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Good point, though I find the part of the commentary relevant:

Although we were initially skeptical that mirror bacteria could pose major risks, we have become deeply concerned. We were uncertain about the feasibility of synthesizing mirror bacteria but have concluded that technological progress will likely make this possible. We were uncertain about the consequences of mirror bacterial infection in humans and animals, but a close examination of existing studies led us to conclude that infections could be severe. Unlike previous discussions of mirror life, we also realized that generalist heterotroph mirror bacteria might find a range of nutrients in animal hosts and the environment and thus would not be intrinsically biocontained

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (4 children)

Unlike previous discussions of mirror life, we also realized that generalist heterotroph mirror bacteria might find a range of nutrients in animal hosts and the environment and thus would not be intrinsically biocontained

That is basically my suspicion, from my knowledge at this time. Pathogenicity as a danger seems questionable based upon how incompatible known life is with the opposite enantiomers of its basic building blocks (though, if artificial "mirror" bacteria were able to develop enzymes to change the chirality of the proteins, etc, it would probably be bad).

Going on that energy-intensive chemistry being tricky to accomplish, it is far more likely that generalists could displace extant microorganisms that may be unable to use their evolved defenses effectively. This could result in cascading food web disruptions until either extant life adapts, or complex organisms go extinct through starvation.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 week ago (4 children)

And your background in biology is..?

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Undergrad in biochemistry with a year research internship. Also, a long, AuADHD-fueled interest with chemistry, industrial microbiology, and reading research papers. Yourself?

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 week ago

Obviously this individual wouldn't be asking unless they had a PhD in molecular nutology

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Ok, on one side we have undergrad and on other international group of Nobel laureates and other experts. Who is probably right..

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Nobel Laureates have never made ridiculous statements that didn't mesh well with scientific evidence. Kary Mullis, Nobel Laureate in Chemistry, credited with discovering PCR would never be quoted as refuting the evidence of HIV as causative in AIDS, cited in a journal article questioning the evidence, and then the journal article retracted due to it being inaccurately labeled as "Hypothesis and Theory" instead of opinion, factually inaccurate, and dangerous - oh. Oh no:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6830318/

Next thing, you'll tell me that scientists are humans that are fallible and some of them sometimes engage in ethically-questionable activities and sensationalism for profit.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 week ago (2 children)

i do not disagree, but probability of who is right is not on the side of random lemmy poster in this case.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Let's refresh your memory on what the original poster you criticized said since you think this is about who is right:

This seems like something that really is a minimal risk. Pathogens are pathogens because they are able to make use of our bodies as raw materials to reproduce. Unless they are able to make use of both enantiomers in their biology, there’s little benefit to dedicating resources to colonizing us.

Probably a bigger concern would be outcompeting and displacing organisms lower on the food chain.

This is someone forming an opinion based on what they know so far. They are clearly a good scientist because they are not making any factual claims here. They are, in fact, doing what any good scientist does and bringing up issues they see with the claims of other scientists.

They are not even saying it wouldn't be an overall problem and I would not be at all surprised if they modify their opinion, which was neither a claim nor a prediction, if they read the 299-page report, but you seem to want a formal rebuttal. A formal rebuttal and a peer review process do not require someone to have a degree and people without degrees have had papers published in scientific journals.

And if they came up with a formal rebuttal and allowed it to be peer-reviewed, would you even read it?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

~~if~~ when they read the 299-page report

Yup. Planning to crack that open this weekend :).

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 week ago

Fair enough then! I know I wouldn't have the knowledge to understand any of it.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 week ago (3 children)

who is right is not on the side of random lemmy poster in this case.

Looking at you, kid.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

You read what they wrote and became sceptical of their credentials? I mean, it's healthy to be cautiously sceptical of anything you read/hear to an extent. But to immediately and without any further discussion, call them out in a patronising and condescending way is wild.

It makes me want to know if you have a background in biology. Since you so readily dispute someone else's. Someone who, at least on the surface, seems to know what they are talking about.

In fact, why do you give so much credit to the legitimacy of the article and its writer, there might be a "38 strong group" of nobel laureates and experts warning about this, but the writer of the article adds the spin. The writer decides how to portray the warnings and their urgency. They might be overselling this. And since there is little to no citation in the article, i am more inclined to question the articles' legitimacy before i query this poster....

[–] [email protected] -5 points 1 week ago (5 children)

Why do you give so much credit to the legitimacy of the random poster on internet?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 week ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

I dont think i have given them any credit. I would argue i simply didn't dispute them out of hand. Especially as you did without backing myself up with evidence of my own credentials.

I also thought i expressed that we should all be sceptical of anything we read on the internet. My issue was how you weighted your sceptisism. You seem to have automatically given all credibility to a reporter, under the assumption that they held no bias that affected the story they wrote.

For all you know, the random poster on the internet may be a legitimate scientist and expert who disagrees with them. Their opinion may be just as valid as the opinion in the report.

As a recent example, google released a quantum computer chip, and lemmy immediately ripped apart the reports and media buzz around what it was actually capable of. I believe that this is a great example of healthy sceptisism.

I believe that what you did is an example of unhealthy or misplaced sceptisism.

Granted, if it turned out that this random poster was absolutely unqualified to make the assertions that they did then absolutely you would be in the right.

I just dont think its helpful to dispute them out of hand with nothing to back you up.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 week ago

This is actually a fair and good question to ask. Being too credulous of things read on the Internet has shown rather problematic in recent years. Taking everything written in academic journals, especially opinion pieces not based upon peer-reviewed evidence, without skepticism has shown to be problematic since before the Internet, however.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Unless they are able to make use of both enantiomers in their biology

I wouldn't expect that sentence from someone without a background in biology for many, many reasons.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 week ago

After browsing facebook for one hour I also got to the conclusion that all those people publishing in Science are lying. /s

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 week ago

It's cool, America has RFK Jr. So...

...it's not cool, actually

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Maybe someone should build 50 underground silos.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 week ago

Make sure you bring along a spare water chip.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Would prions fall under this category?

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