By that logic, it sounds like it’s Ukraine’s affair whether or not it allows NATO armored brigades and CAP to operate in the Ukrainian theater, in concert with AFU forces.
this post was submitted on 25 Oct 2024
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To be fair, that is probably up to Ukraine. Except that we aren’t offering those NATO brigades. I wish we would.
Can you imagine being a Putin supporter and simping for such a dumb and cowardly piece of shit?
if Ukraine wanted to join NATO then Moscow could do what it wanted to ensure its own security
NATO should really just allow Ukraine to join and tell Russia: get out within 1 week and restore the original borders or you're at war with NATO. It's Ukraine' and NATO's affair after all, correct?
That’s probably why NATO doesn’t invite countries at war. What’s stopping Ukraine from invoking article 5 immediately?
Well, that'd be the point of Ukraine joining NATO currently.
NATO maintains that it is a defensive alliance. If NATO starts adding countries Russia is currently at war with, it becomes an offensive alliance.
That being said, why wasn’t Ukraine added earlier?
NATO maintains that it is a defensive alliance. If NATO starts adding countries Russia is currently at war with, it becomes an offensive alliance.
I don't think so. Ukraine is in a defensive war. Actively joining their side doesn't turn it into an offensive one. The difference between offensive and defensive conflicts is the goal: In an offensive, you want to gain something. In a defence, it is about keeping what you have. Just because NATO would come to their aid, Ukraine wouldn't want to conquer Russia.
That being said, why wasn’t Ukraine added earlier?
Multiple reasons probably:
- Ukraine was and to some extent still is a post-soviet state: Oligarchs, corruption and all that comes with it.
- There was the Budapest Memorandum in place which guaranteed a sovereign Ukrainian state affectively as buffer between Russia and other NATO countries. Which was subsequently broken by Russia in 2014.
- "Don't anger the Russians". See where this got us?
Man, to drop decorum, I don’t give a shit about the Russians and angering them. I’m just trying not to give Russia a pretext to do something really fucking stupid. Yes, they can perform false flag operations for their own pretext.
Joining an active war without a prior alliance is an escalation. To keep NATO defensive and not to bring them into an active war, there should be a different agreement signed.
Hell, NK joining the war is an escalation by both NK and Russia. Does this justify NATO adding Ukraine just for them to immediately invoke article 5? I don’t think so.
Regardless of ethics and politicking though, someone HAS to be done to show Russia that it can’t just arbitrarily annex parts of other countries.
Russia can stop being at war at any second, if it chooses to
Right, but if chooses too Ukraine will likely join NATO and Russia ends up with another NATO country against its land border.
The only reason they would withdraw is if they don’t have enough troops - which they are supplementing with North Korean troops. It’s against Russia’s geopolitical interest.
That and Putin is a crazy guy doing crazy things. Putin may not stop even if it IS in his best interests to do so
I'm pretty sure war is not a one-sided situation, Vlad.
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https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/north-korea-has-sent-3000-troops-russia-ukraine-war-south-korean-lawmakers-say-2024-10-23/
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-says-it-is-our-affair-if-russia-uses-north-korean-troops-2024-10-25/