this post was submitted on 21 Aug 2023
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Republican men seem massively troubled about their masculinity — and that's literally causing death and suffering

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[–] [email protected] 123 points 1 year ago

Men who work to limit women's autonomy over their own bodies, or for that matter conservative women who punch down to bolster their fragile status have serious issues to work on and should quit afflicting them on the rest of us.

Amen

[–] [email protected] 95 points 1 year ago (8 children)

One thing I've learned is that if you have to announce something about yourself, and announce it loudly and repeatedly, it's very much not true.

[–] [email protected] 45 points 1 year ago (7 children)

I've been told drinking coffee with cream or sugar isn't manly which I find funny, like who cares? We all have taste buds dude. IMO a "real" man isn't concerned about what others think, he is comfortable being himself.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Know what's manly? Doing whatever the fuck you want.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'd like to amend that with "whatever the fuck you want, so long as you're not hurting anyone," because plenty of these dudes live by doing whatever they want, but they don't give two shits about how it affects everyone else.

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[–] keef 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I drink black coffee because I have a problem. Not because I’m trying to get +1 to my role in society

Imagine being so sensitive a little bit of lightness in your coffee is enough of a devaluation to your manhood to make it a thing 😫

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

A guy who used to cut my hair was rumored to be a hitman for the mafia. Nice guy. Really mild mannered. Last person who you would ever suspect of killing people.

I actually believe the rumor because an actual hitman will make sure that he's the last person that you would ever suspect.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

And the projections. The constant insults are ones they practice in the mirror because that's the person it applies to the most

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (3 children)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Since Alpha and Omega = Beginning and End, I always think an alpha male is a beginner at the art of being a male human and we should help them to become better at it.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm not sure about that. You may just be in an oppressive environment, like with trans people and their pronouns.

[–] [email protected] 37 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Hypermasculinity’s “oppressors” include flowers, rainbows, other people choosing to wear dresses, a functioning government, and welfare.

Trans folks oppressors are the hypermasculine.

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

"manliness"

In this context, the definition is being a chronic asshole and getting away with it.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Seems to be a big deal when you start talking guns and mental health, but with all the fixations on "mass shootings", they lose this little stat:

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/

"In 2021, the most recent year for which complete data is available, 48,830 people died from gun-related injuries in the U.S., according to the CDC. That figure includes gun murders and gun suicides, along with three less common types of gun-related deaths tracked by the CDC: those that were accidental, those that involved law enforcement and those whose circumstances could not be determined."

54% of those deaths were suicides. 26,368.

(43% murder, 3% "other", accidents, etc.)

Also in 2021, 38,358 men committed suicide compared to 9,825 women.

https://www.cdc.gov/suicide/suicide-data-statistics.html

3.9:1, if almost 4x more women than men were dying for any reason, it would be a national crisis. "Something would have to be done!"

Mental health for men? Silence.

[–] keef 36 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I hear what you are saying but I wouldn’t even say that line about if it were women it’d be a national crisis. Time has shown again and again that society will gladly throw away a group of people without needing to devalue your words with a statement like that.

Anyway there’s a lot of things to discuss around this.

We can dive into the societal role of men with being encouraged to bottle up because “grown men don’t cry” and toxic masculinity.

We can talk about rates of gun ownership between genders that is a big factor in suicide risk.

We can unpack the issue with people not having the money for mental health resources. Which can be solved through general wage increases or through the state.

The point is to say that instead of using a crisis to step another group of people we should be approaching these things from a point of intersectionality.

Edit: Just to be on topic I am completely for restrictions on guns as a easier means to dealing with shootings.

The crazy people shouting “dont take my guns” while also touting the line of “it’s a mental health isssue” without being open to addressing that problem gets me so worked up.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

54% of those deaths were suicides. 26,368.

Mental health for men? Silence.

There are people who advocate for "men's rights" things, but they're mostly conservatives, and they leave out the horrifying statistics about gun ownership among men because they're also in the pocket of the gun lobby.

It's a taboo subject even amongst family members of those affected to talk about the role of firearms in suicide.

The reality is that gun ownership can turn a bad, lonely night into a person's last one by pure virtue of the fact that it's so readily available, and so often deadly.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (13 children)

People aren't silent about men successfully committing suicide at a higher rate to women. You hear about it all the time. However, it isn't an issue about men being overlooked, like you imply. Women attempt suicide at a higher rate. Why didn't you discuss that? Is it being ignored?

The fact of the matter is suicide by firearm is the worst offender. Attempted suicide needs to be prevented for everyone equally, but firearm ownership should be more restricted, and there should also be tools out there to get your firearms away from you temporarily if you're feeling suicidal or depressed. Men are more likely to own firearms, which is the issue that needs addressing to fix the disparity, not men being ignored.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (2 children)

it would be a national crisis. "Something would have to be done!"

People are already saying something has to be done because it is a national crisis. Toxic gun culture prevents any serious actions

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago

Comprehensive mental health care for all is not being blocked by gun culture, it's being blocked by the typical Republican calls of "SOCIALISM!!"

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

The right has been pretty open about what kind of America they want to live in and what they're willing to do to get there. We should all believe them and take them seriously, because they are fucking serious.

Fascist militias are popping up left and right, and the only gun control measures that pass end up restricting the rights of citizens in blue states while red states continue expanding their own. Unless you can magically disarm the entire nation simultaneously that cat is out of the bag.

I'm optimistic about the future and hold no deluded fantasies of armed conflict, but there may come a time where you'll wish you had access to normal capacity magazines and non-nerfed rifles. Jon Stewart is not going to come rescue you when they have you on your knees in front of a ditch.

Disarming the working class under the current hyper-capitalist regime doesn't really work in our favor either, and in most instances gun control is proven to be a political loser that equals to nothing more than a waste of time/effort and only serves to cripple a campaign.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago
[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

You were doing so well until you tried the "People care so much more about women's health! Pity me!" line.

Strange how Viagra is required to be covered by all insurance but birth control isn't. Whose priorities are privileged there?

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[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 year ago (5 children)

It's so irritating that left-of-center publications always go all-in on anti-gun sentiment, while believing that a police state is going to save people. News flash: it won't. Cops don't care about you and have no responsibility to do anything to help you, or to prevent violence against you. Cops are often the ones involved in protecting the people on the right that use violence to suppress people on the left.

For fucks sake, we literally saw a full year of violence by police against peaceful BLM protestors that just want to stop extrajudicial police killings; we caw cops turn protests into riots, and then use the riots as their excuse for using more violence.

I reject their authoritarian leanings, in the same way that I reject the authoritarian bullshit from Republicans.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (19 children)

Your misunderstanding is thinking everyone left of center wants to round up all the guns, ripping them from the hands of anyone who wont give them willingly. Anyone who has thought about it knows we cant get rid of every last gun and it would be a tireless effort, like the war on drugs, to try.

No, I only ask we do a better job at regulating these weapons. It is no small task and it will always come down to how well a job our local communities are doing. The real issue is just as the article states, people aren't getting the social services they need and are being driven into poverty by an oppressive work culture. There is no way any poor community can deal with these issues with everything else that's going on while having zero resources.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I run a bakery and helped a lady with a cake for her husband. She was constantly asking me if these were masculine enough colors and designs lol. I tricked them with trans pride colors. Worrying about your masculinity is one of the least masculine things you can do.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago

Well, hopefully you didn't get her beaten by an abusive spouse.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Being manly is vital to the right wing.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I know this goes a bit off from the article (I skimmed). But I think a lot of this toxic masculinity comes from decades of media on what a American man should be.

They need to be strong, independent, smart (sometimes), ingenious, a natural leader, angry at the "system", can shoot any gun with perfection, solve most all problems with a gun or a fist fight, never show any type of remorse or trauma from their violent "solutions", muscular, always get the girl, only drink brown liquors or beer, never bend, never negotiate, always win, and can walk away from an explosion without flinching.

This shit has been around since the 1940's and it still in use today. It used to be the Lone Ranger, Superman, batman. Then it was the strong independent cowboy taking on the "savages", The 70's it was Charles Bronson and Clint Eastwood taking on the Gangs of the inner cities. The 80's and 90's were Rambo and terminator, the 2000's with Mission Impossible, Jason Borne, John Wick. And James Bond all through out. Just to name a few

Not to take away from the entertainment of these movies and characters but I see lot's of men that take these fictional characters and try to make it their personality. But reality doesn't work that way. They can't go shoot your problems away. Hot women just don't fall leg spread for these guys (which makes them angrier). AND some men don't want to be this unrealistic version of an American man. Which for some reason pisses off those men that do want it....

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (9 children)

Agreed. However, something has to be said for the fact that a lot of American society and economy has shifted value away from "dangerous" or otherwise physically demanding labor (e.g. coal mining, farm field work before automation) towards jobs that don't depend on how much muscle mass you have or other expressions of sex hormones. That value system was encoded into cultural norms and media, which, without the corresponding environment, just became a caricature.

The problem of focusing too much on the culture is that we miss what shaped it in the first place: a need to feel valued. If men aren't valued for their physique (or, to be frank, their biological expendability), then what's their value? The Left was too afraid of ruining their Feminist credibility to offer any serious solutions. Meanwhile, the Right leaned in to that caricature, and offered a solution full of misogyny and arrogance. When presented a choice between an awful solution and no solution, it's no wonder so many men fell prey to toxicity.

We need more non-toxic masculinity.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago

And also their tendency to unleash face-eating leopards.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago

In my humble opinion all these fellas just seem to be running around like a beheaded chicken in search for the slightest amount self worth. Instead they started yearning for surrogates like wealth, power, status and what not.

The problem with these surrogates is that you cannot ever get enough of it. It'll never fill the gaping hole which is their sense of self.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

IMO, the focus should be on being a good person and not on conforming to unrealistic gender stereotypes. One's gender presentation (or lack) is enhanced by universal positive attributes like honesty, confidence, commitment, charity, etc. This is not an original idea, but thought it worth saying.

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