Body: I'm tired, let's go to bed
Brain: Nah, I think I'll stay up super late instead and be tired tomorrow for no reason.
The lighter side of ADHD
Body: I'm tired, let's go to bed
Brain: Nah, I think I'll stay up super late instead and be tired tomorrow for no reason.
You forgot my favorite of sleep-hating-brain internal dialogue!
"Why would you need to sleep until your alarm goes off when I can wake you early and you can be anxious about not sleeping! Or all the stuff you feel you should now start but are too tired to do even though you know I won't let you sleep!
Wouldn't want to sleep through that! Why do you think I kept you up so late??"
There's also:
Brain: Okay, time to do things!
Body: Ehh.... Later, let's just lay here and have anxiety about not doing the things
"In a world of disorder I lie awake
Knowing there's nothing I can do
In a world of disorder I lie awake
Knowing there's something I can do"
Disorder - Chiasm
There's different ways to interpret these, but given the topic here I've found another one.
This every night. And then I also get up early, or I don't have enough time to build up dopamine to make my day a little easier (especially pre-meds and ultimately the end of the day when meds are done for the day).
I’m in my 40s now and still get to bed after midnight and wake up around 5. This shit has been going on for over a decade and I’m wondering when my body will actually sleep.
Even ADHD-oriented media is often being dishonest with people who suspect themselves to have this condition, being toxicly positive and showing ADHD as a "superpower" as if you can hyperfocus your way to success. It is neither a gift nor even an equal exchange between advantages and drawbacks like "you'll be always late but also always creative!" It's a crippling thing that may ruin career or end a relationship. There is nothing good with ADHD.
Absolutely. People want there to be a fair trade-off, but life just doesn't work that way. I've seen similar romanticization of autism too, especially with the "savants".
Sorry. Most of that shit has been my fault, and people like me.
In recent times, there's been a push to reclassify certain disabilities from .. disabilities, into "neurodivergence." in an attempt to destigmatize certain disorders, and cast them in a new light as part of human evolution.
The idea that life is a min-maxing situation comes from the "just world fallacy", the fallacious belief that all good and evils "must balance out". Someone born with some profound disability might have no overarching heartwarming lesson for society to learn, and life might just be about abject cruelty.
I don't know if the community appreciates or hates that change, but, I've seen autism go from being called something quite hateful (/r) in the 1990s, to becoming a spectrum, to people working with autistic people and just calling them "different".
The romanticization might come from movies like Rain Man, and the few high profile savant cases (on ASD), e.g: I recall speculation that Bill Gates and Elon Musk both had Asperger's Syndrome.
What's your take on this?
I think it's definitely had the positive effects that you mention. People are far less cruel, more understanding, and also WAY more willing to go seek help with these types of problems than they used to be.
The negative effect is that anytime something becomes romanticized, it's human nature for people to adopt it as an identity, which introduces a lot of noise to the conversation, and we lose some of our objectivity toward it, as now there's an emotional attachment to the label itself. For example:
All that being said, I still think it's a net-positive effect. This is just what happens anytime something clinical enters the mainstream conversation.
I hate it. Sure. Being called a retard isn't great, but having people claim ASDs are just a different way of thinking is downplaying problems. Oh how quirky we are!
If I wasn't retarded, I would have been able to study properly instead of relying on hyperfocus and high ascociative thinking. I would have graduated. If I wasn't retarded, I would have been able to do things consistently and perseveer. Instead, I lose and gain weight over and over. I'm going to develop diabetes at this rate. Going to a 24/7 open gym is the only chance I got at staving off the problems caused by depression and my dopamine hunger induced eating disorder. If I wasn't retarded, people would have appreciated me more. Instead, I am too much. Say too much. Exist too much. Even when I predict something, or suggest something that people think was good, they believe someone else in the group thought of it.
Furthermore, downplaying the issues could have people mistake just how capable people with autism/ADHD are. People shouldn't think that starting a family with someone autistic is just "going to be a little different." People seriously ought to reconsider marrying someone lacking theory of mind skills. And autists should seriously reconsider whether or not they are suitable parents. Baby cries? Can't have a meltdown. Baby needs consistent care? Better not have exec. dys. inhibiting your jobsecurity and energy management. Need to be able to get on the level of the child, make the child feel heard and understood? Sucks for the kid if the parent lacks that ability too. Both my parents are autistic/AD(H)D, and were downright neglectful and one abusive. They have no real friends. They struggle with emotional regulation and communication. I've been working my ass off to become better than them.
I don't care what people call having multiple mental disabilities. What's important is helping children on the spectrum. Early detection could have spared me further brain damage and subsequent stacking of developmental problems.
Life is 3d6, not point buy.
I'm beginning to suspect "superfocus" is just what normal people do when they focus.
Nah, super focus is totally a thing, just not everyone does it.
My wife can't sit in a computer chair for 8 hours straight playing a game/editing a video/writing something/reading Wikipedia really hard, but I can.
And no, I can't control it so it's not a superpower, it's random enforced focus and it's only sometimes a helpful thing. Usually the work I do when doing it gets worse much faster and it does major damage to your body to sit in 1 position for that long not peeing.
No, no, I know what hyperfocus is, it's the reason I no longer touch creative writing with a ten foot pole after getting bombarded with "but you wrote this one in an hour and it is awesome! just write another one!" :D
I meant that I am wondering if normal people just get the same productivity but without it being flipped on or off randomly, provided they don't get distracted by something. You know, kinda like learning that it's not just a tv thing that people can say "okay, let's do this" and actually sit down and do "this" and not have to beat their brain into submission first.
They call it the Flow state, there are books and I'm sure seminars about getting into the flow state to help you focus and get more done.
Basically. When in reality it's indistinguishable from laziness to the untrained eye.
Does it help if someone forces you to do the thing or is is better to give time and space until you decide to do it? Asking for a friend.
The #1 thing that helps me is having a partner for whatever the thing is. If someone has the same goal as me, I will put 150% into getting it done.
But if the thing only benefits me? Well, then I'll just go ahead and shoot myself right in the foot
Body doubling.
I can clean the whole kitchen while also preparing dinner and dessert if my SO is in the kitchen, even if they're not helping. But alone? Forget it. I'll be lucky to remember the water kettle was on.
Boy am I glad I’m not the only one. This describes me exactly. Having a partner nag me to get something done is like having a literal little devil on my shoulder and is often the motivation I need. Now with me and my own projects that she has no vested interest in, those sit and languish for days, weeks, months, years….
(this is not a flex AT ALL) I am selfless to a fault. I care so little about my needs in comparison to others' and I hate it
I ll procrastinate to whether to shoot the right one or the left and not even get that done.
Depends on the thing.
Super high level, ADHD is an issue with the reward system of the brain failing to deliver reward when it's supposed to. Your brain is supposed to try to find a new task when it's not getting it's reward anymore; it's how that frontal cortex problem solving engine gets driven around by all the parts that handle motivation, wants and desires.
Sometimes no reward is being given, so you keep slipping off to a different task, and sometimes too much reward is being given and so you stay on a task way too long.
And, to be clear: these are not huge rewards we're talking about like a wave of pleasure or noticable feeling, just the baseline steering signals.
Sometimes the task you need to do provides no "normal" reward but neither does what you're doing right now, so your problem solver sees no reason to switch. Sometimes a nudge can help because fulfilling a request or suggestion can come with some reward, or at least you're just swapping out neutral tasks with some minor effort.
Sometimes the task is unpleasant to some minor degree, so not only is the reward not there, it's also a punishment. Or the thing you're currently doing is providing some degree of reward.
In either case, switching means actively going against everything your problem solver uses to decide what to do. Needless to say, that's really hard, and being nudged often feels more like being nagged, or like they're upset with you, because your problem solver (also known as your conscious self) knows this is all going on, but knowing how the engine is working doesn't make it work differently.
So you've been sitting there trying to push a granite block up a hill for an hour, and then someone comes up and starts pushing on your back. They haven't removed the part that made it hard, but they added something uncomfortable to your current situation.
Before I got on medication following my diagnosis, me and my partner handled it by just being really cognizant of what our mental states are, and communicating clearly. "You asked me to remind you", "I need to do it, but I'm stuck", and effectively asking for permission before annoying someone to the point where the current blocker is less desirable than doing the thing. Requires a lot of trust and good communication though.
It's difficult to describe subjective feelings, but what can sometimes look like "sitting on the couch watching short YouTube videos about sheep dogs instead of brushing your teeth and going to bed" is actually: sitting on the couch bored out of your mind and desperately wanting to go to bed, but the sheepdogs are providing short bursts of novelty and cute. Removing your lap blanket provides no joy and makes you cold. Standing up provides no joy and makes you less comfortable. Walking to the bathroom provides no joy and now you're in the dark bathroom. Brushing your teeth provides no joy, tastes bad, and is intensely boring. Walking to the bedroom provides no joy. Getting into bed and snuggling up provides joy.
Summed up: sheep dogs provide continuous minor joy, and only costs the physical misery of staying awake, the confused guilt of paralysis, and the promise of future misery. Going to bed is a promise of some joy, but it comes with a bunch of steps that are at best neutral and often entail anti-joy. It just doesn't add up. Other people get a tiny hit of joy from each substep, which is why they can say "I'm done looking at sheepdogs, I'm going to bed" and then just magically do it.
"Before you go to bed, you need to slowly press your bare foot into this fresh dog poop, toes spread of course" isn't often made better by someone saying "it's not that bad, come on, you can do it, I believe in you, then you can get some rest for once".
That youtube short part really hurts, I know thats whats going on, but getting the move on is so impossible. I also can't get my brain to understand that sleeping is not wasting time, even while I'm wasting time watching nothings on youtube.
Sometimes I picture my prefrontal cortex as a well meaning bureaucrat who's just like "oh, trust me, I know the rules are terrible and there's an active problem. Nothing I can do about it though, I just work here. Second that order comes in though, I'm on it boss, you better believe. You're gonna want to talk to my manager. Yeah, he doesn't take calls. It sucks, could maybe get something fixed around here. "
Does all of this ring true for anybody else without diagnosed ADHD? Because this is exactly how I feel constantly but I also hate to self-diagnose based on internet discussion.
I feel like ADHD is one of those things where everybody relates to it a bit, so it's hard to know if I should look into getting a diagnosis.
Don't self diagnose based on a single internet discussion but self diagnosis is crucial to getting yourself some relief. I didn't get a diagnosis until I was about 40, and even at this point the change was dramatic. I don't take stimulants but I take a few medications and it made life so much easier, I doubled my salary in 3 years, bought a house, just had a fantastic few years. But I also have a ton of trauma, I hurt a lot of people and myself from being so chaotic and depressed and incapable of processing thoughts or feelings, or being able to handle basic finances. I also lost like 15 years of good life where I could have been successful and happy instead of depressed and stuck in a shitty job with no clear way out.
If you're reading these discussions and realizing that it seems a little too familiar, take this seriously. If you decide you have it, don't take anyone's word that you don't. Its hard to get treated IMO, so if you see a therapist and they don't want to treat you for ADHD, then bye bye, find another one who will take it seriously. I went to therapists on and off for years trying to figure out why I was depressed, and they basically told me I was okay, the normal amount of unhappy with regular life stuff. I finally got on a mild antidepressant and it helped immensely. I fought and found out the antidepressant had an off label use for treating mild ADHD, and when my daughter got diagnosed I looked more into it. When I went to therapists to get treated for ADHD, they told me I was just depressed. so you gotta fight for yourself, but this world is a fuck, and it can be extremely worth while once you get what you might need.
Yeah, a lot of brain things are like that. The way I look at it is, everyone sees a little of it, but some people see a lot of it. If you see a lot, it's not self diagnosis to say "I have a lot of symptoms in common with people who have this, so I asked a professional".
You also don't need a diagnosis to practice some of the coping strategies that people have that are non-medication. If they turn out to be helpful, that's maybe a another reason to ask a professional.
Self diagnosis is a bad idea, but it's also a bad idea to ignore marked similarities you see between yourself and others. And stuff like "always put your keys and wallet in a specific basket" is only the cost of the basket.
Oh yeah. Wonderful memories of psyching myself up to do Thing and then suddenly getting nagged to do Thing and dropping in absolute negatives on the good old motivation.
That's a wonderful example at the end there, gotta remember it when I talk to people who don't get why I was standing in doors dressed and couldn't go outside.
For me personally, and a few others I know, it's definitely the latter. However, everyone is different, so it'd be interesting to see other people's replies.
Agreed. Definitely the latter.
I think this is way more of a shitty personality trait of mine than anything, but for some reason, if I've already gotten in the headspace to do something, and I'm preparing for it or thinking about it at that moment, etc. and someone tells me to do, I either get angry, almost like a, "I'm not an idiot you don't have to tell me," kind of way, or it totally deflates me and I get knocked out of that headspace for some reason.
I don't get what that is, but after having to wrestle with my own brain just to get simple tasks completed, having that additional stress just messes me up.
I think the reaction depends on how aware one is of how one's flow state works. Neurotypical people seem to be able to get back into it much easier than us ADHD types, but I think that's often because our flow states tend to be deeper, so it's much more annoying to be knocked out of it for seemingly trivial reasons by people who don't know how hard it is to get back into that state after an interruption.
In my opinion, this is (mostly) a "training issue". If I know this is how my brain works, it's my job to train those around me on how to help me be as efficient as possible, even if it's something as simple as "if my headphones are on, do not interrupt me unless something is ON FIRE, OR if I have been working for more than 3 hours without a break."
If either of those things are true, it's also my job to not be annoyed by the interruption, which is of course often harder than the interruption itself.
Personally it all comes down to adrenaline. If a task stresses me out enough to hit me with some adrenaline I'll complete it immediately.
If not then I'm either doing nothing while thinking about the task or forgetting the task existed at all.
Or, the adrenaline triggers me to tell my boss I can't do this any more, get up and walk out of a client meeting and not answer any calls from work for a few days.
This meme makes a good point I’ll look into it tomorrow. I’m too busy ignoring the mountain of stuff I need to get done today to have the time
I feel this applies to more than just adhd, for example things like burn-out and depression.
The three often go together.
ADHD is just a bunch of symptoms in a trench coat.
Yeah everyone pees, but if you do it 60 times a day, you should probably ask why, no?
ADHD often comes with some degree of low-grade anxiety/depression tbh
I remember talking to my therapist about how I’m not worried about forgetting something, I’m always worried about what I haven’t realized I have forgotten and is already causing a problem. I just live in a constant state of “something is on fire I just haven’t smelled the smoke yet.” it’s not quite PTSD, but it is certainly something analogous and it’s always this low level hum of stress. At least that’s what I took from my conversation with her.
If you make a venn diagram of the symptoms of ADHD, PTSD, burnout, anxiety, bipolar, and autism you get pretty close to a circle
My brother in law has ADHD. He lives next door to me.
He has a car he parks on the street. In my city you're required to get a registration sticker for your car, it's like $100 or something, good for a year. Every day you don't have a valid sticker you can get a new ticket on your car. It takes two minutes to go online and order a new one.
For the last three years, hes been racking up tickets on his car for an expired sticker. One a week roughly, $60 per ticket I think. He usually lets them pile up until he gets final notices then pays them all online at double the cost.
Twice now he's has his car booted, then impounded, due to unpaid tickets. He even includes tickets on his car as part of budgeting. I've offered a couple times if he'd hand me his license to go online and order the sticker for him. I've stopped offering since that offer is met with intense anger.
It takes TWO MINUTES to go online and order a new one. Poor guy
Is this really ADHD. I might have to get tested. Everything people are posting here sounds like me.
ADHD is symptoms a lot of people have, but dialed up to the point that it is disruptive enough to be a disorder.
Trouble falling asleep because your mind is racing a couple times a year, or occasionally misplace something? Probably not. If it happens a few times a week then probably..
I often wonder as well. Then I think: is this not just the human condition. In any case I seem to score pretty high on those online questionnaires.
It's a matter of scale, not a binary.
Having a thing that you need to do but just "don't" is perfectly common.
Having it happen so regularly that you reliably spend a measurable part of your day wondering why you can't just "do the thing", or it starts to have measurable negative impacts on your job, life and relationships isn't normal.
Everyone feels down sometimes, but not everyone has a serotonin balance problem.
Everyone feels difficulty focusing sometimes, but not everyone has a dopamine balance problem.
It can be other things. Some of why I didn't get stuff done when younger was actually a symptom of PTSD from unrelated trauma. Basically my stress response is messed up and so anything I could link to stress or shame can make me avoidant, which snowballs into not doing the thing and more stress.
When I unlinked daily tasks from shame and stress I could suddenly do them, as I actually have ok executive functioning when PTSD isn't messing with me to cause avoidance which as I understand would not really be the case for ADHD. Although PTSD and the like can also pop up in ADHD people who were bullied for their symptoms.
Haha I'm so quirky, right? I also need to order a new fridge because mine broke a month ago but it's so funny having adhd!