this post was submitted on 15 Apr 2024
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54
self hosted newbie question about moCA router (sh.itjust.works)
submitted 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
16 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Hello and good evening self hosters! so i recently new to self hosting, i just installed my CM3588 DIY NAS with a bunch of services which is very addicting!

but i digress, so i recently found out today that we pay $11 a month to rent our router for our house. Which i personally think is ridiculous! So i am looking into buying to own, not renting to burn money. However the router seems to get internet from the ISP through moCA which looking at router that support moCA are rather limiting in speeds and very expensive. So my query for this fine, fine community is if i were to buy a coax/moCA adapter that then coverts it to Ethernet and then plug it into my router and and then by proxy my access points. would it work, wifi 6E looks super nice and there are very few options that are very pricey for modem/router combos that support moCA.

I am open to alternatives and ideas, and please correct me if i made any mistakes on terminally or my diagram

thanks folks!

Edit--- my current router is a ARRIS Surfboard TG3452 DOCSIS 3.1 Cable Voice Gateway Modem Router with 802.11ac Wi-Fi & MoCA 2.0

So

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[–] [email protected] 43 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Just to make absolutely sure: you are POSITIVE that the device you've been renting is a MoCA-WAN router, and NOT a cable modem?

In the US at least, most of the single-unit devices that receive a coax input are DOCSIS 3.x, not MoCA. They are combining two pieces of hardware in a single physical unit: a docsis modem and a router.

Prior to having fiber internet, when my provider was Comcast, I owned two separate devices instead of renting the single device from my ISP: a DOCSIS 3.1 modem from Arris, and a standard Ethernet router

Just want to make sure you are absolutely confident about what your ISP is actually providing before you spend money on new hardware :)

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago

Yeah, 100% , had Mediacom years ago and they were migrating to docsis 3. I'd be very surprised if the lumbering slow Mediacom suddenly switched off.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Something is odd here, who is your ISP? I've only seen MoCA used to create a network for cable/satellite STBs through the coax in the building, or for a phone company connection creating a MoCA bridge to provide broadband from a demarcation point in an apartment building where only a phone line is available in lieu of DSL. What is the make of your existing router?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

I know Google Fiber generation 1 setups were Fiber to the home (to a "Fiber Jack") with a provided router that had 1 gigabit Ethernet port and a coax/MoCA output. Then each TV receiver box got its connectivity via MoCA from the router (most of the customer homes were already set up for cable to any area there was a TV) and put out 100mb ethernet from each of those endpoints (these also doubled as Wifi APs).

What I've never heard of is an ISP offering a MoCA coax to your house and you having only a MoCA receiver. Supposedly the max distance between MoCA devices is about 300 feet.

Seems more likely the person asking the question actually just has a cable modem and could put their own router downstream of it if they wanted?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 months ago

You can also just look and the model number of your rental and buy that.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Based on your edit, what you need isn't MoCA. What you need is a cable modem and a router (preferably as separate units, not a combo one like you have. Happy to explain why if you care)

  • What is your ISP?

  • What is your current advertised upload and download speed for the internet plan you have?

  • Do you get TV or phone service through the same provider?

  • Is your house wired for Ethernet? Coax? Both?

  • How many people live with you?

  • How many sqft is your home?

  • How many devices well be connected? How many are wired? How many on WiFi?

  • What is your use-case? Simultaneous streaming in 4k and latency-sensitive gaming? Mostly non-competitive gaming? Big downloads? Do you plan to stream content from your home while traveling or similar?

Help me help you :p

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I got mediacom for my isp, My speed is about 1gb up and down Aswell We do not get phone or tv through our isp.

My house is old as balls and doesnt have ethernet or coaxial, i ran a ethernet cable up stairs for my rig.

And devices is around 13ish between people and my small fleet of raspi's lmao

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

That's a non-trivial number of devices, so I would recommend a decent router that will last into the future, including service upgrades. Especially if anyone in the house is gaming and streaming movies at the same time

I recommend purchasing the modem and router as two separate units.

For the modem, because you have symmetric gigabit service, you'll need one that supports gigabit upstream. That means the less expensive SB8200 is out. Instead, you're looking at the ARRIS SURFboard S33. You can also find a comparable product from Netgear, the CM2000

For your router, I personally like and trust Asus. Their user interface is robust but user-friendly, and their firmware is well supported by the home networking community (including a stellar 'expanded' version called AsusMerlin that frequently has features pulled into the official firmware)

While you could go with an older model that only supports WiFi 5 (AC), those models have reached end-of-life and will only receive critical security updates. Instead, it's worth spending a bit more for the WiFi 6 (AX) version.

The minimum you'll want to support a symmetric gigabit connection like what you have is the Asus RT-AX86U. However, to support possible higher speeds in the future, and to get the most rock-solid performance, I recommend the Asus RT-AX88U. This is what I personally own for my symmetric gigabit connection

NOTE: There are older versions with the same model number that have extra LAN Ethernet ports (8 total) and no 2.5Gbps port. Do NOT get them! There are known issues when using ports 5-8 on these units

Again, you could find a similar product in the Netgear Nighthawk brand.

Anything above that is going to be extra bells and whistles. Things like extra WiFi bands, stronger radios, more 2.5Gbps ports, support for link aggregation, and some one-click gaming features that I personally think aren't worth the money.

Depending on the size of your home and your personal use case, you may also find value in adding mesh WiFi nodes to your network. Asus and Netgear both have their own implementations here. Asus' version is called AiMesh and is pretty seamless. All of their modern routers can act as the primary mesh node.

Personally I do not game on WiFi, so I went with 3x Asus ZenWiFi AX Mini (XD4) mesh nodes. They can be connected wirelessly to the main router, or by Ethernet to reduce latency. If I were going to be gaming on WiFi, I would have gone with the beefier ZenWiFi AX (XT8) nodes instead

Hope that helps, and let me know if you have any questions! Happy to go into more detail on whatever you need

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago

Depends on your ISP, some only allow their product, some don't care. If they only allow their equipment you can often pay less rent per month by going to bridge mode, or they supply a bridge, and ypu use your own wifi router. I think ours was $5 month for modem, $10 if you used their wifi router

[–] astraeus 3 points 6 months ago

Get your own Arris Surfboard without the Router elements, make sure it is DOCSIS 3.1 and the maximum bandwidth exceeds your current speed provided by the ISP. I would recommend the SB8200 but check with your ISP to guarantee that they will accept a connection with that model.

Purchase any router you like. I’m sure you can find plenty of router recommendations online. If you wanted a rack router you could even get one of those, but it sounds like you just need a solid wireless router that has good coverage and a few ports on the back, which is pretty standard.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

My old ISP just let me us their device that did this and no routing when I asked for it. I didn't have to buy a MOCA device, I just had to ask to use my own router.

This of course is not true for my new ISP, but it's worth the effort to avoid the hassle of accidentally getting the wrong device to put between your router and the wall.

[–] CameronDev 2 points 6 months ago

Here in Aus, this is how the NBN is provided in some areas, there is a NBN coax-to-ethernet box, and then you can plug in your own router.

There is always a chance that your ISP is doing something weird that prevents that working, but I think it should be fine.

[–] epyon22 1 points 6 months ago

Yeah can confirm this will work. Similar setup great way to get wifi extended without running wires.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Before spending any time or money on this, I'd ask my ISP if you are allowed to bring your own hardware and what type of support is available in that scenario.

Before you make that call, another thing to consider is that $11 per month is paying for two things, not just the hardware, but the associated support which allows you to say: "Sorry, the internet is down and it's your hardware."

Finally, most network hardware costs in the order of $500 or more. It regularly fails around the three year mark, when it's out of warranty. In your situation, that's not your problem, since it's their hardware.

So, for me, it seems like a no-brainer to stay where you are, but I'm not you and you might have different requirements.

I for one work from home and I need my network to be reliable.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Nah, a cable modem costs anywhere from $60-$300 depending on if you want one with a built in router/wifi. That's a pretty good return on investment. Mine has been running just fine for over a decade, and I've replaced the wifi router behind it 3 times to get improvements in WiFI speed that I wouldn't have gotten from my ISP. $11/mo would have cost me an extra $1,300+ of fees by now.

I have mediacom, and they're pretty good about support in my area, even if they are pretty shitty about other things. They can and do send signals to be able to manage a self-owned cable modem, and they'll send a tech to your house and diagnose issues, even if you roll your own network.

The US has some decent laws around protecting you from getting shafted by ISPs for this specific situation.
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2022/03/router-and-modem-rental-fees-still-a-major-annoyance-despite-new-us-law/

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

That's very interesting. Nothing like that exists in Australia as far as I know.

You can bring your own hardware and take your chances with support, or you can get a modem from the ISP when you sign up.

Depending on the situation, I've done both.