this post was submitted on 27 Feb 2024
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[–] [email protected] 8 points 8 months ago (1 children)

but what about with the infinite amount of people collapse under their own mass and form a black hole?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (4 children)

Only the real cardinallity must. The integer cardinallity could have them spaced out enough that they won't collapse.

For you to do this trolley problem you'd need to be outside the real track black hole so the question becomes: do you let a trolley go into a black hole or do you switch it to an infinite track that kills an infinite number of people?

Edit: in which case the black hole must be infinitely far away and you don't even know about it. So: do you pull the switch to cause a trolley to start killing a seemingly infinite number of people? Which based on the other replies in this thread the answer is a resounding "yes"

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Did nobody have math class? The pictures are always misleading!

It never actually specifies the density the people are packed onto the track, the image implies an answer.

I'd argue that the densities should be considered to be equal, regardless of whatever that density value may be. We do not need to solve for the exact value to discuss the problem at hand!

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 8 months ago

Would suck being the last person on either track. It'd be a long and boring wait while tied up

[–] [email protected] 7 points 8 months ago

Jump in front of the trolley, someone else's problem

[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago (1 children)

This comment section is politics in action! :-P

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago

If you want to be a true masochist, you could re-run the experiment on Reddit - hurk 🤮.

The beauty of Lemmy is that here we can at least talk about such neat things:-).

[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Invent a new number system that provides aneven smaller infinity

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago (4 children)

I know many people despise generative AI, but what do you think of this result from Copilot? I am bad at maths so I wonder if you experts can tell.

In your scenario, you have two sets: the integers on the top track and the real numbers on the bottom track. The cardinality of the integers is equal to the cardinality of the real numbers, which is called the continuum hypothesis. Therefore, it seems intuitively more ethical to pull the lever and divert the trolley to the bottom track, where you kill fewer people in any finite time.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago

it seems intuitively more ethical to pull the lever and divert the trolley to the bottom track,

not an expert but the integer one is at the top i think

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago

i'd ask for a second train.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I get that the answer is supposed to be "it doesn't matter" but if you take time into account, it actually fucking does, and also makes it hugely obvious what the actual answer is.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago

from the picture this is true but from the statement alone both options are identical

[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago

If we have infinite people, it wouldn't be such a bad thing to lose a couple.

[–] lordmauve 5 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Some infinities are bigger than others but those are both the same sized infinity, ℵ₀. Same if you multi-track drift.

Edit: I didn't read it closely enough, it says "one person for every real number". Which is indeed a larger infinity. However I don't think you can diagram that, the diagram is showing a countable infinity of people on the lower track.

Killing one person for each real number, the train will be killing an uncountably infinite quantity of people in any given finite time slice.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago

Pull the lever. Save as many lives as you can and hope that someone that now wasn't killed as fast can help come up with a solution for the runaway trolley.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

EDIT: I rolled a critical fail in reading comprehension and I thought the other track was N per integer instead of 1 per real number in the previous version of this comment.

The people in the real number track are already dead by the time the trolley arrives due to the forces involved in cramming them so tightly together. I.e. they are basically just a gore pile the moment after the people are somehow arranged like that.

I pick the real number track so that no one new has to die.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

If the tracks are scaled to the same unit (presumably one where one human width equals an infinitely small number), everyone in the top track would die of exposure before the trolley even reaches its first victim due to there being infinite distance between integer milestones, whereas everyone in the bottom track would be killed instantly due to any distance traveled having an infinite number of infinitesimals*. So I choose the bottom track to be merciful.

If the tracks don't share the same scale then we don't have enough information to make a judgment.

* Even though we already established the one human width rule. Could someone check my logic here? Infinities break my brain.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago

I'll do nothing. Either way those people will eventually die - because of the train or because of starvation and dehydration. I would prefer the train.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago

Infinity people always die. Even if you don't make a decision.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago

I pull the lever and invoke Zeno's paradox to ensure the trolley's position remains < 1 for eternity.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago (2 children)

I am sure even countably infinite people would violate some law of thermodynamics.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago

Pull it -1/12 of the way, causing the infinity to converge to a real number.

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