this post was submitted on 10 Jul 2023
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I'm a socialist libertarian. Disagreement is fine just don't be a dick.
@MapleEngineer
“Socialist libertarian” sounds like an oxymoron to me. Please elaborate.
cc: @samael
Capitalism is where the people do most of the work and the wealthy oligarchs/plutocrats get most of the benefit.
Communism is where the people do most of the work and the government/cleptocrats get most of the benefit.
Socialism is where the people do most of the work and the people get most of the benefit.
Libertarianism is FAR more closely aligned with socialism than it is with fascism. The fascists have just coopted libertarianism, Prosperity Libertarianism, to say, "I've got mine, fuck you."
I want the smallest government possible to effectively run the country. I want the government to leave me the fuck alone and not tell me who I can love, fuck, or marry, how I can dress, what I can and can't do with my body, what I can eat or drink or smoke. I want a government that works FOR the people not against them. I don't want the government and the police to be the enforcement arm for corporations and the wealthy. I don't want corporations writing laws to benefit them at the expense of the people. I don't want the government propping up corporations. If they fail, they fail and another will rise to take their place. If it's a better it will succeed and survive. If not it will fail and be replaced again. I want unions everywhere. They protect workers and increase productivity.
I'm also smart enough that the only solution to a social problem is a social solution. The US government has spent more than $1.5 trillion dollars since 1976 fighting the "war on drugs" and drugs won. All the war on drugs did was make a bunch of rich people richer.
@MapleEngineer
It seems to me that Socialism is predicated on theft, which Libertarians find abhorrent. Is there some cognitive dissonance going on here?
cc: @samael
How is it theft that the people who do the work enjoy the benefits of that work? Why should the wealthy get 99% of the benefit of the people's labour? That's theft. Libertarians DO find theft abhorrent but the people who call themselves libertarians now are Prosperity Libertarians who are to libertarianism as Prosperity Christians are to Christianity. They are NOT libertarians.
@MapleEngineer
I think you have committed the “No True Scotsman” logical fallacy.
cc: @samael
I guess we're done then.
Have a good day.
@MapleEngineer
Thanks for the conversation.
cc: @samael
Socialism is the belief that the product of labor belongs to the people creating it- Workers.
And not to the capital owners who contribute nothing to production.
In that frame of view, the Capitalists steal surplus value from the workers - The difference between wages and the value of product. And as such, taking back the means of production & the spoils of the capitalist parasites isn't theft, it's reclaiming of one's rightful property.
@BloodForTheBloodGod
Capital can consist of saved earnings. It is OK to steal such capital?
cc: @MapleEngineer @samael
That's not what capital means. And frankly, the 0.0001% of the time when someone invests something they've actually earned, I don't care.
We reclaim the remaining 99.999998% of capital for the working class, and I think that's a solid place to start.