News
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
view the rest of the comments
Just to explain: Their demands are mainly loosening the blockade (which is a humanitarian crisis in its own right) and freeing ~~hostages~~ Palestinian detainees.
And killing every jew in the world..
They don't want to kill all Jews. They want the expulsion of all Jews from Israel/Palestine. At least according to their original manifesto, they've changed it to remove this part to be fair.
It can be argued that the Israeli government wants the same thing for the Palestinians.
“rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea” .. “the Day of Judgment will not come about until Muslims fight Jews and kill them.”
Hamas’ 1988 charter
Thanks I was too lazy to find the exact citation.
Do you see the difference between what you said and their charter ? What Hamas wants is awful enough, no need to exaggerate.
OP is misleading. Hamas has a new 2017 charter, which has change a lot. As far as I can remember, they had alterd their demand/charter, where the main clause is to have the Israel/Palestine border to be as of 1967.
When they say kill jews they mean all, everywhere. They've even stated this to the press.
Some members have stated as such but have been corrected by the leadership. Hamas, at least publicly, only said that they wanted to forcefully displace the Jews and that they would not hesitate to kill civilians to attain that objective.
Example: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/senior-hamas-official-urges-palestinians-worldwide-to-kill-every-jew-on-the-globe
Oh that's all? Thank goodness forcible displacement using coercive threats on a civilian population isnt a war crime. I don't understand why you are splitting hairs on the goals of this openly genocidal group. Supporting Palestinians doesn't mean you have to go to bat for Hamas.
Where do you see that I'm supporting them? I literally reiterated in many comments that what they want is a war crime. No need to invent some other objectives they are plenty awful enough.
Truth matters, especially in conflicts like this.
It really didn't take much to get you in the mood to justify a targeted attack on civilians did it. I'm consistent in my view that it's wrong to murder civilians, but it doesn't seem like you are.
Yikes, so much misinformation, lies, and straight up fantasies in this single post.
You really want me to give you recent quotes from their leaders? You want to look that stupid?
Well yes ? How else would you want to do this. I just gave you an example of a senior Hamas officer saying kill all Jews and Hamas saying they do not agree.
I have no doubt Hamas leadership is a bunch of genocidal maniacs but their official stance has been in the past the forceful displacement and nowadays it's the return to pre 1967 borders. They are ready to admit to the existence of Israel, not by pleasure mind you, but their official stance nowadays is that they are partially open to a two state solution if the right to return is put in place.
This might be a bunch of lies, but it is their official position.
Exactly
Given that Jews are not likely to voluntarily leave Israel, this is de facto a call to violently expel or kill all Jews in the area, which is nearly half of the world's Jews.
While yes, going from "Kill all Jews" to just "Kill half of all Jews" is an improvement, it's still not "let's all hold hands and find a way to get along!". This isn't to say that the Israeli far right is all that much better really, though they're better at knowing what parts to say out loud.
Yes it is a clear war crime don't get me wrong. But exaggeration has no use when reality is awful enough.
Hamas is a terrorist organisation that will not hesitate to kill civilians to achieve their ideals. They do not publicly at least want to kill all Jews.
TBF, so is the IDF. They have killed, what, nearly 20,000 Palestinians, mostly women and children non-combatants, since they declared war on Gaza? They claim to care about not killing civilians, but they sure aren't putting a lot of effort into not killing them.
What's a reasonable ratio of combatants to non-combatants killed? 1:1? 1:10? If Israel has to kill one hundred civilians in order to kill a single Hamas militant, is that acceptable?
This is plain wrong and disinformation. Israel has killed way more civilians than is usual or acceptable in a war but nowhere near the numbers you cited.
See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_2023_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war
Yes ? Do you really think only 200 Hamas militants were killed ? Because that's what your ratio would suggest.
Israel is unnecessarily killing and starving civilians, but once again gross misinformation serves nobody and only justifies more horrors.
Where did I say that one side didn't want to genocide the other ? Hamas is more public about it and won't even try to justify their civilian killings, but Netanhyu government has made it clear again and again that they are willing to do collective punishment. The high civilian death rate is of course intentional.
Hamas has also killed plenty of civilians, and they don't even try to pretend that it was accidental. That said you are close to their ratio which is three civilians for every military death.
Israel's civilian deaths to militant deaths is probably higher due to the usage of bombs (10 civilian deaths per explosion) and intentional starvation but it isn't 100:1.
Hamas' strategy of hiding behind civilians is also a war crime since it obviously increases the number of civilians killed.
If you believe Israeli propaganda, they have killed 5000 Hamas militants. Reality is probably smaller than that, but since Hamas intentionally doesn't publish their militant casualties we won't have a good estimation. That said 500 Israeli soldiers have died and seeing the asymmetry in warfare, you can expect much more Hamas militants to have died. I have not been able to find an estimate from an independent source.
So, here's the thing - which is more awful? A group that publicly says they want to do genocide but is really, really ineffective at it? Or a group that claims they only want to stop bad people, but happens to be really effective at committing genocide while purportedly killing bad people?
I strongly suspect that the only way Israel can claim that 5k Hamas militants have been killed is by counting every male that appears to be at least a teenager as a militant.
Frankly both are awful and both should not be allowed to take control of Israel/Palestine. I have no idea what solution there is to this conflict honestly, I just want things to stay somewhat factual.
I agree that the 5000 figure seems highly improbable. Israel has been quite effective at killing high members of Hamas but I doubt they have killed 5000 out of the 30000 militants.
The solution is two states, where Israel returns to the 1947 UN borders, and allows the Palestinian Authority to have full control of Palestinian territory. Hamas exists as a powerful force because Israel consistently refuses to work towards a two-state solution in good faith.
The other solution is for the UN to de-militarize both the Palestinians and the Israelis, occupy all the land currently held by Israel, and force a power-sharing agreement and a new constitution so that Israel is no longer a Jewish state. Of course, the last time that Israel was occupied, you had a whole bunch of far-right Jewish terrorists that did things like assassinate diplomat's families.
Yes, there is a bump if you look at the Hamas fighting population demographics but it is a minority. The large majority of people killed in this war are civilians there is no doubt about that. I was denying the 1:100 figure. For example Hamas has 1\3 of female victims, yet have a 1:4 casualty rate.
No he didn't and you know it. Why lie ?
Some senior Hamas executives have had such a discourse for Jews before being very softly reprimanded by Hamas but no executive from the Israeli government. There have been plenty of dog whistles, but they are not stupid enough to say it literally.
Edit : I didn't realize it but you were the person calling for the massacre of civilians in an earlier comment. Explains why you would lie, you need to dehumanise your enemy. I'm not spending more energy on this. You're too far gone.