this post was submitted on 31 Jul 2023
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lol I love how you’re using ‘TERFs’ as a scapegoat while ignoring that TERFs are, quite literally, Trans-exclusionary Radical Feminists. They’re not ‘masquerading’ as anything, they are feminists and have always been. They’re also mostly women, which means these specific women are being held accountable for their own behavior. To claim otherwise is to infantilize these women and take their agency away from them.
Lemmy and its ‘77% male userbase’ can hardly be blamed for the real and enduring shortcomings in the feminist movement itself. It’s not a problem that should simply be ignored or handwaved away if feminists want to get rid of the stigma their movement carries.
This may come as a surprise to you, but people often deliberately mislabel themselves for credibility, or believe themselves to be something that they are not. For example, so called 'leftists' in the US are actually centrists and by international standards.
You are holding all women feminists accountable for the actions of a few self-proclaimed women feminists. That is not infantilization, that is pointing out the impossible standards that women are held to by anti-feminists and how some women will always be blamed for the actions of others.
Lemmy's userbase is problematic because often times people don't think about whether or not their experiences are relevant before speaking. Judging by your condemnation of feminists because of misandrists who claim to be one, you don't seem to understand that feminism is fundamentally about equality and bringing men and women up to par with each other. This goes beyond just women's rights. Feminism is just as much about making safe spaces for discussions about men's mental health, male sexual assault victims, paternity leave, custody, and so much more. The reason why these things are not accessible to lots of men is the same reason why women aren't being treated as people. It's because of systemic patriarchal barriers that force men and women alike to conform to certain detrimental behaviors or be ostracized.
Look, it doesn’t matter what you want the movement to be about or what you think TERFs are. The reality is that TERF isn’t a self-given label, radical feminist isn’t a self-given label, and more than a few notable individuals in the feminist movement (a movement that, at its core, is about womens’ rights) are misandrist. This is a reality that, no matter how much you pretend is fake, is still real.
And if feminists spend more time denying this reality than actively changing it, the movement itself won’t change, nor will its general perception.
Christ can you not understand that most feminists fundamentally disagree with TERFs? I don't know why you are so insistant to lump them with actual feminist. Maybe consider listening to feminists, like me, instead of perpetually mansplaining about what feminists are.
It's not a 'general perception' that all feminists are TERFs. It's what your perception and the perceptions of other anti-feminists. Hell most normal men, who are feminists with or without labels, don't share your perception. You seem to have this warped perception that all feminists are out to get you and hate on men, when the reality is so far from the radicalized scheme that you think it is. People like you perceive the existance of feminism as an attack on you. It's not. It's not even about you, because you don't seem to care about men's issues either. It's about everyone else who wants to lift men and women above the patriarchy.
Wow, didn’t take you long to get personal with your replies huh. Keep blaming the terrible image of the feminist movement on ‘misogynists’ all you want, but it’s misandrists, TERFs and other bigots in the movement who give it a bad name, as well as the people who only respond to criticism of the movement itself with deflection, accusations and ad hominem.
Anyway, it’s not like I care anymore what the image of the feminist movement is; I stopped associating with it ages ago. Do with it what you will.
I am the feminist movement. You are speaking it right now. This is the image of feminism. If you don't like what you see, don't shuffle around and just admit that you are an anti-feminist.
The feminist movement isn't some men-hating caricature you see on Fox news. It's normal people caring about those who suffer from the patriarchy, men and women alike. It's people over at Men's Liberation community. It's donating to the local women's shelter because over 90% of SA victims are female. It's donating to men's suicide prevention charities because over 80% of deaths are from men. It's understanding that the men's mental health crisis is a consequence of patriarchal structures. It's understanding the pervasiveness of systemic oppression on women's lives. It's learning to empathize with the different but real struggles that the other genders face.
If you simply 'don't care anymore' because you are concerned about image, that's not good enough. You should care. And that starts with embracing the idea that feminism isn't a dirty word, and it's not defined by extremists. It's 2023 and it's what everybody should strive for ffs.
Look, you go ahead and keep on pretending that the feminist movement is perfect and that all the bigots are ‘not true feminists’. Keep acting like feminism is only all the good things, and it wasn’t feminists who had battered men’s shelters shut down, that TERFs aren’t ‘real feminists’. Keep pretending that anyone who criticizes feminism is actually just ‘anti-feminism’. In the end, it won’t change what the image of the movement is, nor will it change the people behind that image.
Whatever you think feminism is doesn't change what feminism actually is. I don't think you see the irony here of how you are explaining what feminism is to a feminist.
If you are not a feminist, you are anti-feminist. It's that simple. You think you are criticizing feminism, when in reality you are criticizing misandrists and TERFs who are not accepted by feminist (ask me, a feminist).
Can you just stop and think about the optics for a second? You are explaining to me, a feminist, what feminism is. You are explaining to me how i support misandrists and TERFs when everything I have written couldn't be further from that. You need to take a step back and start treating me, a woman, as a person with valid thoughts and opinions that exist independently of your narrow world view. And you need to stop putting down men who are feminists because doing so makes you just as much of a misandrist as the people you claim to hate. If you have any respect for yourself and other men's mental health issues, start accepting that feminism is the solution.
Again, this whole thread was about the image of the movement, and the culpability of misandrist feminists in painting an image of feminists as ‘women who hate men’.