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I need to come up with a right angle gearbox (example ) (fedia.io)

submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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I need to come up with a right angle gearbox (example)

I’m not a blacksmith and local hardware stores are coming up empty apart from selling a right angle drill attachment (which would work but they’re a bit pricey for my purpose).

The purpose: to hide a water valve (positioned upright) & control it from the other side of a wall. (back story)

My ideas so far:

find a broken angle grinder that someone threw away (seems unlikely) & cannabalize the gears
build right angle gears out of wood
harvest worn down bicycle cassettes from the trash and orient them at right angles against each other. They are designed to mate with a chain, so I’m not sure how well it would work. The valve is only turned on/off a couple times per year, so maybe I can get away with it.
go to a toy store and find a kid’s Capsela set (do they still make these?); though I imagine it might exceed the cost of a right angle drill accessory anyway and it would possibly break under stress.

What other tools or appliances should I look for on a dumpster dive which would likely contain a right angle gearbox?

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Sorry, but IMO, None of your ideas will work.

angle grinder: The gear ratio is probably around 4:1 or more so you'd either be turning the knob forever or it would be very difficult to turn

Wood gears: Much harder than you think, but not impossible with the right tools, but I'm assuming you don't have them. If you are determined you can go check out https://woodgears.ca/ however, he has some templates you can print out and cut out.

Bicycle cassette: Those are sprockets not gears. They would be quite clunky and difficult to use as gears.

The best thing to do would be to simply relocate the valve. With some sharkbite fittings and some copper pipe and a Pipe Cutter you could easily relocate the valve, and there would be less work than trying to fit in a cobbled together right angle gearbox.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

I'm for the relocation idea. Get some PEX and the related prices. Not cheap initially but very reliable and super easy to do as a DIY.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I should have clarified, the gear templates on woodgears.ca can't likely be used as is. You would would likely either have to bevel the teeth or use the "divide" option and use dowels as gears to make pin gears like this

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

@francisfordpoopola
It seems a bit sloppy to run water where water isn’t needed just to control it. I’ve not ruled it out entirely but I think that implies cutting two ¾" holes to run ½" pipe in each direction, which is perhaps structurally comparable to removing a whole brick. And if I remove a whole brick, I might as well just stick my hand through to reach the valve. Though to be clear I don’t know if it’s one layer of brick or two. Since it’s interior, probably one.

Regarding PEX, I have very little confidence in it. I just fixed a huge amount of damage because PEX that was only 13 years old leaked enough to collapse a ceiling. I also have a PEX compression fitting that I had to replace every 6 months routinely until I decided to replace the fitting with a longer run of PEX. Normally I would favor soldered copper. However, the input side of the valve is steel (copper-incompatible) and the other side of it is PEX. So indeed it’d be steel (with many threaded joints) or PEX with fewer joints. At least ½ the PEX joints would be accessible.

@Gordon

angle grinder: The gear ratio is probably around 4:1 or more so you’d either be turning the knob forever or it would be very difficult to turn

Once or twice a year, I wouldn’t be too bothered with 4 rotations for every valve rotation. A ball valve is only ¼ of a rotation anyway. Although the valve I’m favoring ATM has a replaceable cartridge which is not a ball valve but I think it only needs 1 or 2 rotations. If I needed to close the valve often, then I would consider the inverse: making it hard to turn but then put a big wheel on the wall & do a steampunk style.

Regarding the wood gears, the pegs had not occured to me and perhaps they are a good approach. Quite simple and may even work with scrap Ikea particle board. I know there are some youtube vids on right angle gears in wood but I’ve not watched them yet. I know flat gears can be done with just a drill and jigsaw (though I don’t have a jigsaw).

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I wouldnt use pex. A sharkbite will work with regular copper tube. The peg gear system would be the easiest to "cobble together" without too many tools.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Sounds like you need bevel gears.

https://www.grainger.com/category/power-transmission/gearing/bevel-gears

I’m with Gordon though. It’s easier to move the fitting than rig up gearing.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

After having a look at the use case, I would likely go with a modified project box, rather than your right angle gearbox idea. It sounds like you're going to run into a world of pain, with some of the details.

You can buy project boxes of various descriptions that are waterproof. Some even have doors on them! If you took one of these, and cut a hole in the bottom or back (as appropriate) you could mount this over the valve. This could be sealed down and stsy in place. When you need to use the valve, you can either open the door if it has one, or remove the lid from the project box. This gives you access to the handle. Afterwards, close it back up, and the project box's waterproof seal will keep the water out.

A couple of examples of what I mean.

Link 1

Link 2

Link 3

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Maybe this plus camouflage the area by making it into a small bench or shelf. The enclosure would keep moisture out of the valve area. The camouflage would hide the enclosure, and if done well, would make the area easier to keep clean.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

You're thinking too rigidly IMO. Twine/rope and a spool. Pull one way to fully open, pull the other side to open it the other.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Have you tried McMaster Carr? They might have what you're looking for.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You’ve already considered cutting a hole in the wall big enough to fit an arm through to reach the valve?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

@lettruthout No I haven’t. Interesting idea.

I would like the hole to be as small as possible. I have a solid steel rod on hand (ø=12mm) but I could even get a smaller one. This would be the least intrusive on a structural wall (brick), which technically I’m not supposed to touch without planning permission. I would bend that rule for a rod ≤12mm. I’m not sure if removing a whole brick is bit risky since it’s an old house and the state of the brick is probably dodgy to begin with.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Could you use some hose mounted in a couple of bearings, fixed to some brackets mounted at right angles? Kinda like the same way you use a flexible drill bit holder?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

@DownwardSpiral Thanks for the suggestion. I’m not sure if a rubber hose (like a garden hose) could take the pressure without kinking. A flex shaft did occur to me, which is in some Dremel kits and also sold for drills. I think a flex shaft accessory would work but then I’m probably approaching the cost of a right angle attachment anyway. I’ll keep it in mind though. It would indeed be cheap to use a small section of garden hose if it can handle the torque. Perhaps a hose inside of a hose to add strength and resist the hose getting twisted.

(edit) I have an old plumber’s snake that’s in rough shape. Perhaps i could cut a bit of that off and run it through a garden hose, and use the snake as a flex shaft. Though it might not do too well in the counter-clockwise direction of rotation.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

The angle grinder idea is the easiest and probably cheapest, they can be bought very cheap these days, I saw one for 20€ in a shop, brand new the other day, I'm sure you could look at the second hand market and get something very cheap.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Love the creativity lol. It prob helped out quite a bit that you came in with a proposed solution and not an explanation of the problem. But yea, move the valve :)

[–] wyrmroot 0 points 1 year ago

I’d definitely go with that right angle drill attachment if it works.

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