this post was submitted on 09 Nov 2024
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If you think pigs, chickens and cows have the same level of awareness and perception as broccoli, tomatoes or potatoes than you're the potato.
Humans have to eat and with the exception of a few minerals like salt, everything edible to humans is alive on some level. Vegansisn is making an ethical choice about reducing what causes the most pain fear and suffering in another. If I were to develop cancer, a tape worm or a virus should I also allow those living things to thrive as well or does "Uh, now what?" also apply to antibiotics?
Eat people because they're potatoes, got it!
Or wait, it's "than"? Hmm...no, I can't think of how to turn it into a joke with a punchline of "than" being there instead of "then", lol
How about I just get to eat meat because I consider it far more humane to be more efficient about proteins? And eggs and cheeses are more efficient with all sorts of aminos.
As much as I respect vegans I also don't agree with their approach. I am of the opinion (as is most biologists) that we are omnivores.
No vegans dispute this. In fact that is a large reason we point that meat is not a necessity to a healthy diet like many claim.
But fundamentally I'm not here to talk about veganism. You are entitled to your own beliefs, I only wanted to provide a complete answer to the "hypocritical vegans" comment that appears in every thread paints feeling pain. While I personally think deciding that things are most "humane" when they are "efficient" for you regardless of the effect it has on others is selfish and motivated reasoning, thus unethical. But this thread nor community is a place to discuss ethics, I clearly illuminated why equating plant rights and animal rights is silly, so frankly I would just like to end the discussion there. Thanks.
I've actually seen vegans dispute that. I have no problem with veganism. It is not a bad idea. I don't eat meat, but I do not have the willpower (or the money) to be a vegan.
But I have seen that.
That’s an urban myth as the whole foods plant-based diet is 30% cheaper and it’s only the prepackaged supermarket vegan alternatives that are more expensive on average.
There are several products that are more expensive in any diet like waygu steak or decades old wine.
Source
Your paste:
Me:
Either you did not read my post or you ignored it to lecture me anyway. Either way, you are not here in good faith.
I’m only disputing your claim that the “vegan diet is expensive.”
Claiming the vegan diet is expensive when a comprehensive study by Oxford on the topic says otherwise necessitates reexamining the claim.
That's study doesn't cover people who have some or all of their food subsidized or provided for free, people who hunt fish or trap for their food, nor those who raise their own. it covers nobody who is working poor, only people who pay full retail price for all their food.
I did not say that. Do not put it in quotes because that is not what I said.
I said:
Because we're fucking poor.
Also there's this issue: https://lemmy.world/post/18940775
Believe it or not, the plant-based version of Ensure is a lot more expensive and I'd like to not starve to death if it's all the same to you.
Maybe learn a little about a person before pointing fingers, especially when they're on your side.
Well I do think getting protein from many sources makes more sense and easier to obtain. Are there other options? Absolutely. But how available are they at all times and how much do I need to eat to get the same amount? I hear what you are saying by selfishness but we kind of have to be. It's what fuels this giant meat puppet I move around daily.
You think vegans just eat blocks of tofu all day? My diet has never been more varied and flavorful than when I went vegan. Every single environmental impact study says animal agriculture is a bane to our continued existence, and it goes so far beyond that. Our lands and crops are swallowed up by this ever-rotating machine of suffering and murder that affects the lives of billions of land animals every year, which die terrified and in pain. No "varied protein" myth is worth so much suffering.
And now it seems we can say the same with plants. Life per se is bad because it is based on a predatory scheme. We need to eat more living things in order to keep living...
Vegan Bullshit Bingo
#22: Plants have feelings too
you can't prove that plants don't have feelings.
What do you want, commie? Stop wasting my time.
I just want people in c/science to stick to scientifically provable claims
No. One of my sisters is a vegan and we have had extensive talks about it. Yea garbanzo and peanut butter are great power packed availability. But peanut butter only goes so far. Garbanzo needs a massive amount to match isolated whey or anything close.
I totally agree with the environmental impact. I wish I could have locally sourced options that wouldn't impact the environment so much.
I love how micromanaging nutrition only ever comes up when veganism is mentioned. Do you think people who gorge themselves on steak and cheeseburgers are inherently healthier than someone with a vegan diet because they consume animal protein? You might be shocked to learn that the densest source of protein doesn't come from an animal.
EDIT: You DO have local sources available to you. It's in the same grocery store you buy slaughtered animals from.
That isn't factual. The diversity of food is different in every area. And it doesn't come up just in veganism. Nutritionists and athletes talk about it often.
You can stop pretending that you're trying to advocate for people in food-starved areas. Veganism, believe it or not, has never actually been about trying to force people in marginalized areas to adopt a vegan diet. Veganism is about harm reduction, full stop. The people who appeal to veganism are the same people who can make those choices in any grocery store that they go to, whether they live in a food desert or not. Personally, I don't live in an area that's considered vegan-friendly. However, I find myself to be okay with that purely because I know for a fact that my decisions aren't reliant on convenience alone.
You can't pretend to know who I am and what I advocate for. I am ending this conversation now because it isn't from a place of understanding. It's coming off as angry.
I know exactly who you are. You are the lived experience of many vegans of the person that pretends to know more than us, as if every single person who went vegan didn't have a deep personal conflict with themselves before deciding to align their morality with their lifestyle. You know very little, yet try to advocate against us on our own perceived behalf, using your own sister like some sort of "I have a (insert group here) so I definitely know things". I don't need to understand you because I was you. The difference is that at some point, I was willing to acknowledge I didn't know enough about the moral vacancy of the situation and decided to learn more. The more I learned, the more I grew disgusted with our systemic murder of sentient life and how we didn't need this destructive mechanism to survive in any way, shape, or form.
I'm not advocating against you. I flat out don't agree with you and you are too close minded to think that someone has the same information as you and makes a different choice. You are no better. You aren't more ethical. You just pick on the people that don't agree with you to feel superior because you can't find it any other way. You're a sad person that can't hear when someone says "hey I get it" and not keep pressing on.
And the most pathetic and arrogant part about it is that you have the tenacity to state you know me from one conversation with one topic on the Internet. So close minded to not think a person has more meutia than a single topic. People are complex. You should open your intellect and think that someone can see differently.
Exploiting and murdering animals is unethical full stop.
You are so forceful it's so badass. Even though you are wrong.
Local meat is not better for the environment. Scientific information is only one click away. Look at this graph, it's impressive. Plus:
Vegan Bullshit Bingo
#11 I only eat organic and regional
this is just more poore-nemecek, a paper debunked by its own citations
lol, stop trolling. Nothing is real right? Animal suffering is.
this is a science community. it's reasonable to expect people to provide good science.
Local meat is local murder.
What? The entire point of veganism is that it is an entire order of magnitude more efficient than eating meat. Turns out all the land we use to feed animals we can just grow soybeans on instead. Speaking of which, you want amino acids? Wanna take a guess what has all the amino acids you need? That's right, tofu! It's widely recognized as the healthiest source of protein possible. That sets it apart from red or processed meat, which actively gives you heart disease and cancer.
Look, I'm sorry, but you're just wrong. If you want to eat meat despite the facts indicating you shouldn't, that's fine. Same as you can decide to smoke cigarettes and drive a Hummer. Just be aware that it's worse for both you and the entire planet.
Excessive soy beans has side effects as well. Most nutritionists (like doctors) agree that plant based with diversity of meats is the healthier option.
You don’t need those animal products for nothing. As most doctors are carnists and do not fully understand nutrition because they have not studied the topic much in their training.
Source
your case study is over a decade old. do you have any supporting data?
the definition provided by the vegan society makes no mention of efficiency.
eating meat has no effect on the planet.
What does being omnivores have to do with anything?
What does this have to do with anything? This is bringing efficiency to an ethics fight.
I'm not fighting. I find it annoying to have to eat 16 times the amount of normal peanut butter as one chicken breast. It's pure math.
If something is wrong, then it's wrong, regardless of how efficient or inefficient it is.
It's not wrong though lol
Well, that's a completely different argument.