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The empire of C++ strikes back with Safe C++ proposal (www.theregister.com)

submitted 1 month ago by [email protected] to c/programming

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[–] [email protected] 72 points 1 month ago (12 children)

The inherent problem with this kind of solution is that if you don't break backwards compatibility, you don't get rid off all the insecure code.

And if you do break backwards compatibility, there's not much reason to stick to C++ rather than going for Rust with its established ecosystem...

[–] [email protected] 38 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (7 children)

Given how long and widely C++ has been a dominant language, I don't think anyone can reasonably expect to get rid of all the unsafe code, regardless of approach. There is a lot of it.

However, changing the proposition from "get good at Rust and rewrite these projects from scratch" to "adopt some incremental changes using the existing tooling and skills you already have" would lower the barrier to entry considerably. I think this more practical approach would be likely to reach far more projects.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 1 month ago (6 children)

There's been plenty of interop options between C++ and just about anything for decades. If languages like D, that made it piss easy, weren't gonna change people's minds, nothing can. Ditching C++ is the only way forward.

[–] FizzyOrange 8 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Interop between Rust and C++ is pretty bad actually - I can understand wanting to avoid that.

However I still agree. I can't see opt-in mechanisms like this moving the needle.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I'm a bit surprised that it's supposed to be this bad, given that Mozilla uses it in Firefox and there's the whole CXX toolchain.

Granted, Rust was not designed from the ground up to be C++-like, but I'm really not sure that's a good idea anyways.
Wanting bug-free programs without wanting functional programming paradigms is a bit like:

Of course, if we're able to migrate a lot of old C++ codebases to a slightly better standard relatively easily, then that is still something...

[–] FizzyOrange 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The biggest issue is move constructors. Explanation here: https://cxx.rs/binding/cxxstring.html#restrictions

Probably seems like a little thing but I found it quite annoying in practice, and there are other things like not being able to combine serde-derive and cxx FFI on the same struct.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

Sounds like you'll always have to do this little dance for any string you want to pass through, so I can definitely see how that could become quite annoying.

For not being able to combine serde-derive and cxx FFI on the same struct, there's a simple trick that can be used for many such situations:

struct CxxThingamabob { ... }

#[derive(Serialize, Deserialize)]
#[serde(transparent)]
struct SerializableCxxThingamabob(CxxThingamabob);

That just moves the Serde implementation to a different struct, so that you can choose which one you want by either wrapping or unwrapping it.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago

I gave C++ and D as an example. A language that for all intents and purposes is irrelevant despite being exactly what everyone wanted, something like Java/C#, but with no compromise and direct bindings to C/C++. And why I'm more apologetic to the idea of something more drastically different like Rust as opposed to another touched up clone of C.

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